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[Music]

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explode the bazaar or e-ticket riders of

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the world of the paranoid

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strap yourself mean as we traverse the

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universe exploring the unexplained UFO s

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ghosts lost well cryptozoology ones as

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well as other dimensions it's time to

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take back the NASA night

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now your electrifying hosts of exploring

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the bizarre Timothy Beck me and Tim

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this is breaking news in exploring the

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bizarre exclusive we are celebrating

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tonight 7 70th anniversary of the first

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modern day flying saucer or UFO sighting

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made by Kenneth Arnold over Mothra near

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on June 24 1947 the following is a brief

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clip from an interview that Arnold did

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with legendary news journalist Edward r

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murrow the toilet fluttered like they

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were all right they folks are very rough

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water or a very rough air of some type

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and when I described how they grew like

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that if they realize we had to stop her

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and throw it across the water

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of course the newspapers misunderstood

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miss quarterback - they said that I said

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that they were soft realize I said they

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threw in a softer I said that was on

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historic misquote well mr. Arnold's

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original explanation has been forgotten

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the term flying saucer has become a

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household word few people realized that

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mr. Arnold has reported seeing the same

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strange objects in the sky on three

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other occasions he says that some pilots

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in the Northwest have reported seeing

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them on eight separate occasions we

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asked for his own personal opinion on

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the nature of what he and the others had

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seen I don't know how better explain

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that I wore leather bro referred to the

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prisoner for what I think that means

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potential for American

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if it's not sent by our science or

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our airport I required to believe that

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it's of extraterrestrial origin

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extraterrestrial origin you mean you

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think there's a possibility they may be

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coming out of space from other planets

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I suppose that's pretty hard for people

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to take seriously well I'll go to this

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but I'll analyze why none of us have

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appreciated laughing prepared our report

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sent with the pigeon lift because we

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thought that if our government did snow

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by the quarter was only our duty to

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report it to our artists and to our

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airports honor but I think the company

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is of concern to every person in the

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desert and I don't think if anything for

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people to get hysterical about that

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reply for a period of it so that's how

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it all began that was the trigger action

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Kenneth Arnold story when studying over

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the news wires radio and newspapers

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picked it up and then within days the

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country broke out into a flood of flying

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saucer observations many of these

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reports are great many of them obviously

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could be discounted others reports from

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perfectly competent sober and reliable

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observers and that dear friends is the

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first announcement of the first modern

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day UFO or flying saucer story Tim

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Schwartz how are you out there in Jasper

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Indiana now I'm doing fantastic Tim and

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I taste I've been it's it's it's

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incredible that we still have that

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recording of Murrow and Arnold well have

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you got your noisemakers and party

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favors here tonight because we're going

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to celebrate the 70th anniversary of the

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first modern day flying saucer sighting

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and how are we going to do that Tim why

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don't you introduce our guests for the

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evening well I definitely Tim we're

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celebrating tonight

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we've got two fantastic people with us

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first of all we have a Chanel shams who

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is the granddaughter of Kenneth Arnold

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she says that when she was six years old

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her grandfather can't set her down and

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told her to think for herself and not to

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trust the government and

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that that resonates even though even

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better with us at nowadays she says that

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she's been interested in UFOs since she

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was a child however her interest really

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blossomed as she got more involved on

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Facebook in 2009 and she says that she

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has met a number of children and

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grandchildren of some of the first men

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and women to report UFO sightings as

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well I'm very happy that we have with us

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tonight dr. Bruce Maccabee now dr.

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Maccabee has been an active in the UFO

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field since the late 1960s when he

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joined the natch the National

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investigation committee on aerial

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phenomena better known as NICAP over the

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years he's investigated and reported on

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numerous sightings including the Gemini

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11 and Skylab three astronaut sightings

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the famous McMinnville UFO photos of

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1950 and his most recent book is what

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we're talking about tonight three

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minutes in June the UFO sighting that

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changed the world so dr. Maccabee said

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I'll thank you very much for being with

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us tonight on exploring the bizarre well

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you know Tim I guess you could consider

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me a flying saucer baby you know the

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drive is I was born several weeks my

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birthday is coming up this week if

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anybody wants to send me cash my July

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13th so I came in I was probably right

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on the tail end of those crescent-shaped

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ships probably holding on for for dear

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life and I'm happy to celebrate well

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that means that I'm 70 years old to

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Jesus willikers I didn't realize I

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didn't I should have kept my mouth shut

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but I I didn't so remember it's a dollar

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for every birthday just send it in by

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paypal but in this series seriously I

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die well I welcome our two guests to the

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microphone exploring bizarre this

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evening and I think we're going to have

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a grand time I want to start out with

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the Bruce now Bruce you've been involved

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then the UFO research for how many years

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now I can't come but it starts way back

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in the late 60s and and what got you

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involved in this were you a UFO witness

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I was are with us I found out later that

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my father the late 60s after I become

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interested in the subject that

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apparently my mother his mother my

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grandmother did have a sighting in 1947

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but I know nothing about that when I

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began to get interested in it like

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anybody who grew up in the 50s

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ladies forties fifties sixties we saw

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movies about flying saucers and things

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like that and as a kid you could go and

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watch the movie in wonder what was going

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on but didn't really connect it up with

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any reality of a reality situation then

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I read a book called the report on

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unidentified flying objects by Captain

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Edward J ruppelt who was the first

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director of Air Force's Project Blue

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Book I read that I guess the 1958-59 and

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I thought well Ruffo makes it sound like

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he's he if he was sitting on a fence you

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could knock him over on to the

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extra-terrestrial side of the feather

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but he didn't come to that conclusion

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directly and wasn't much I could do I so

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I forgot about the subject basically for

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about 10 years then in 1965 and 66 there

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was a swap increase in the number of

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sightings in places and occasionally

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setting for negative news papers in a 65

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or 66 timeframe it became a running

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story over months of sightings that

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caused the Air Force to Congress to

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direct the Air Force to hold an

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independent study of UFOs independent of

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Project Blue Book which the Air Force

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started the so-called Condon study at

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the University of Colorado in 1968 and

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ran for a year so during that period of

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time I was an American University in

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Washington DC getting a PhD in physics

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and I became aware from reading a couple

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of UFO books

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the 1998 quarters is not to five

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American University in Washington DC in

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Dupont Circle for those two of you I

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suppose it might be that familiar with

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Washington DC hangri huh two guys when I

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cap came and talked to the American

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University talk about the subject and I

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had read about NICAP in books so I

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thought well must be a big organization

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and they said well we can always use

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help you know filing papers and stuff

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like that so it involved your help for

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your folk studies so I went to the

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office which turned out to be a whole

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wall type of place it was packed with

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all sorts of papers and books and so on

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but I hadn't no UFOs and no scientists

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running around making measurements and

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no secretaries typing out all sorts of

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stuff and sending out the stuff that I

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expected for a big organizationally

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doing they were not doing nevertheless

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we gotta [\h__\h] it up with them some local

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people who are members of non cap and

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did case investigations in the DC area

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and so I've got me into actually going

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with these people and watching how some

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investigations were done and then early

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seventies I began to do my own stuff

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those of you who may remember the

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history the settler remember there were

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a bunch of sightings in 65 and 66 which

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gives a conditional pressure

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so all this independent study at

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university Colorado during that period

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of time secured 66 67 68 69 things

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dropped off by 1970 there's hardly

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hardly a saying drive the project group

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was closed in late 1969 and so most

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people fought by that time the UFOs are

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dead and then in 1973 our so there's a

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huge upswing of sightings in the Midwest

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and south and we're back in the news

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again with some famous sightings Nixon

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Parker abduction and Pascagoula

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Mississippi and the coin helicopter case

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near in Ohio or two of the ones that

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really stuck out in the press there had

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convinced me maybe I should start doing

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my own stuff and I began doing some case

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investigations and I studied at Trent

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the tent photo case of a 1950 from a

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McMinnville Oregon saying this probably

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the mejoras most famous UFO photos

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because they've been around very long

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time in publishing probably almost every

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a UFO book and so I say that and

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investigations and published paper on it

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and I got involved with some other

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sightings of the Gemini 11 and Skylab

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three new zealand sightings in december

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1978 well you know if you remember Bruce

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it was myself and Harold Sulkin who

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organized a press conference for you

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here in New York when those Australian

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the photos and the film were first

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released we had a press conference here

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and get a little newsworthy stories out

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on on that now the other amazing thing

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is that that was the same day that the

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economy of course were signing between

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Israel and Egypt and everybody all of

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the name reporters were in the

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Washington DC area Camp David for the

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side signature and lost only the

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second-string guys back to here our

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press conference which did nevertheless

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resolve in about ten essential colleges

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in the New York Times and I say well

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that's that's more than that's more than

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most you have foe cases of everybody's

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that's for that were art of shoring 79

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all right now why don't you tell the

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listeners so a little bit about your

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background as an optical specialist you

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00:13:47,300 --> 00:13:42,060
were employed as a private contractor by

274
00:13:49,570 --> 00:13:47,310
the Navy no I got a PhD in it's 1970 in

275
00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:49,580
physics and then I started working I

276
00:13:57,220 --> 00:13:52,490
became an employee of the Navy other

277
00:13:59,680 --> 00:13:57,230
than blk early 1972 and as a research

278
00:14:01,060 --> 00:13:59,690
scientist I figured I worked for the

279
00:14:04,450 --> 00:14:01,070
Navy for a couple of years and go into

280
00:14:06,630 --> 00:14:04,460
industry but it turned out the things

281
00:14:10,630 --> 00:14:06,640
happen that I never did leave the Navy

282
00:14:13,060 --> 00:14:10,640
until 2008 by that time I didn't been

283
00:14:15,430 --> 00:14:13,070
there for 36 years so I had a long

284
00:14:17,650 --> 00:14:15,440
string of stuff that I did it for the

285
00:14:21,730 --> 00:14:17,660
Navy over that period of time I also

286
00:14:24,070 --> 00:14:21,740
kept up UFO work not only in physics

287
00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:24,080
part of it there's not many cases where

288
00:14:29,550 --> 00:14:26,410
you can actually do real physics but

289
00:14:31,690 --> 00:14:29,560
also the historical part so I became a

290
00:14:33,970 --> 00:14:31,700
physicist interested in the history of

291
00:14:37,810 --> 00:14:33,980
subject I guess you could say the

292
00:14:40,030 --> 00:14:37,820
physical physical training helped me to

293
00:14:42,400 --> 00:14:40,040
decide whether or not explanations that

294
00:14:44,680 --> 00:14:42,410
they offered by the government made any

295
00:14:47,890 --> 00:14:44,690
sense one of the first thing that caught

296
00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:47,900
my interest was the laws the

297
00:14:52,540 --> 00:14:49,730
explanations proposed by the government

298
00:14:56,250 --> 00:14:52,550
forces from sightings which certainly

299
00:14:59,110 --> 00:14:56,260
seem to be unexplicable and things like

300
00:15:01,480 --> 00:14:59,120
there might say that bright light in the

301
00:15:03,430 --> 00:15:01,490
sky oh is the planet Venus and then

302
00:15:05,140 --> 00:15:03,440
somebody will check on how the planet is

303
00:15:08,050 --> 00:15:05,150
on the other side here at the time sorry

304
00:15:10,510 --> 00:15:08,060
about that but there isn't bother the

305
00:15:12,340 --> 00:15:10,520
Air Force there are a number of cases

306
00:15:14,920 --> 00:15:12,350
that I can point to where the

307
00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:14,930
explanations made no sense at all and I

308
00:15:19,720 --> 00:15:17,930
had to ask myself why is that why does

309
00:15:22,470 --> 00:15:19,730
the Air Force get away with publishing

310
00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:22,480
essentially publishing Razi explanations

311
00:15:29,530 --> 00:15:26,450
and the criticism always is the

312
00:15:31,090 --> 00:15:29,540
criticism of you against the ufologist

313
00:15:33,670 --> 00:15:31,100
and not against the government for

314
00:15:34,150 --> 00:15:33,680
coming up with chroming explanations for

315
00:15:38,140 --> 00:15:34,160
sure

316
00:15:39,790 --> 00:15:38,150
now how number of books on the subject

317
00:15:42,520 --> 00:15:39,800
how many books have you done now I know

318
00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:42,530
I read one a couple years ago on the

319
00:15:50,860 --> 00:15:45,650
FBI's investigation into a UFOs

320
00:15:53,050 --> 00:15:50,870
yeah most I have one from back in 98 99

321
00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:53,060
called the euro surreal here's the proof

322
00:16:00,580 --> 00:15:55,610
a book with ed Walters in the Gulf

323
00:16:03,269 --> 00:16:00,590
Breeze oh yeah I then published the UFO

324
00:16:09,259 --> 00:16:03,279
FBI connection into the

325
00:16:13,590 --> 00:16:09,269
in 2000 and abduction in my life in 2001

326
00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:13,600
then I updated these and I published the

327
00:16:22,499 --> 00:16:19,050
FBI CIA UFO connection in the 19 and 20

328
00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:22,509
2014 an updated version of the first

329
00:16:26,670 --> 00:16:24,970
book with whole bunch of stuff oh and

330
00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:26,680
that happened was my my direct

331
00:16:30,869 --> 00:16:29,410
interactions with the CIA I ended up

332
00:16:33,329 --> 00:16:30,879
going to the CIA a number of times

333
00:16:35,850 --> 00:16:33,339
giving some UFO briefings there and so

334
00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:35,860
on and I couldn't talk about that stuff

335
00:16:41,280 --> 00:16:38,050
in the first book that I did the FBI

336
00:16:43,379 --> 00:16:41,290
kill for my connection but I put it into

337
00:16:46,259 --> 00:16:43,389
the UFO the CIA FBI

338
00:16:49,319 --> 00:16:46,269
the most recent one FBI CIA UFO

339
00:16:52,530 --> 00:16:49,329
connection it's basically a history book

340
00:16:55,049 --> 00:16:52,540
showing well if you are to begin with

341
00:16:57,030 --> 00:16:55,059
the most recent book is talking about

342
00:16:59,400 --> 00:16:57,040
Kenneth Arnold yes yes well that's

343
00:17:02,879 --> 00:16:59,410
really what we want to discuss it now

344
00:17:05,039 --> 00:17:02,889
the FBI CIA UFO connection because you

345
00:17:07,829 --> 00:17:05,049
will have afterwards in other words you

346
00:17:10,199 --> 00:17:07,839
read my Harmon book you'll get a short

347
00:17:12,539 --> 00:17:10,209
time what happened over a short time of

348
00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:12,549
a span of minutes

349
00:17:17,549 --> 00:17:15,970
days oh yeah well one over here what why

350
00:17:21,329 --> 00:17:17,559
don't you set the stage for us and tell

351
00:17:24,059 --> 00:17:21,339
us about what Kenneth Arnold saw and and

352
00:17:26,370 --> 00:17:24,069
in where he was that day and what the

353
00:17:31,020 --> 00:17:26,380
attitude of the public was after his

354
00:17:32,820 --> 00:17:31,030
sighting well as a saying sort of

355
00:17:36,450 --> 00:17:32,830
literally out of the blue you might say

356
00:17:39,180 --> 00:17:36,460
certainly nothing he had planned on the

357
00:17:43,440 --> 00:17:39,190
24th of June 1947 was a nice clear day

358
00:17:45,899 --> 00:17:43,450
apparently and he has been doing work he

359
00:17:48,690 --> 00:17:45,909
was a businessman and so fire control

360
00:17:51,870 --> 00:17:48,700
equipment and he owned his own airplane

361
00:17:53,340 --> 00:17:51,880
flying from one place to another there

362
00:17:55,289 --> 00:17:53,350
are long distances over the mountains

363
00:17:57,810 --> 00:17:55,299
and so he had to be a pilot who could

364
00:18:00,470 --> 00:17:57,820
handle Mountain flying and he had a

365
00:18:03,659 --> 00:18:00,480
caller type of airplane which is a

366
00:18:05,250 --> 00:18:03,669
designed to high-performance that you

367
00:18:07,830 --> 00:18:05,260
need at high altitudes and require you

368
00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:07,840
know climbing over mountains so anyway

369
00:18:13,700 --> 00:18:10,690
here it was an afternoon that he left

370
00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:13,710
this place called Chehalis Washington

371
00:18:19,550 --> 00:18:16,690
and headed east

372
00:18:23,220 --> 00:18:19,560
south of all linear Mountaineers in the

373
00:18:26,100 --> 00:18:23,230
sort of south central area of the state

374
00:18:28,230 --> 00:18:26,110
of Washington and he flew flew past

375
00:18:31,830 --> 00:18:28,240
heading east and then made a u-turn in

376
00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:31,840
history way back west past no earlier he

377
00:18:41,670 --> 00:18:37,330
was searching for a crashed transport

378
00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:41,680
aircraft disappeared somewhere on the

379
00:18:47,190 --> 00:18:43,290
vicinity of the Mount Rainier in

380
00:18:48,780 --> 00:18:47,200
December of 46 and there was a $5,000

381
00:18:51,450 --> 00:18:48,790
reward for anybody who could find the

382
00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:51,460
crash site so he was a looking for the

383
00:18:56,400 --> 00:18:53,770
crash site it was probably buried in the

384
00:18:59,030 --> 00:18:56,410
snow there somewhere they did find the

385
00:19:02,160 --> 00:18:59,040
crash site some months or years later

386
00:19:05,310 --> 00:19:02,170
Arnold didn't find it he drove a flew

387
00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:05,320
past geha flew past Mountaineer the

388
00:19:11,310 --> 00:19:08,010
south side of Mount Ranier heading west

389
00:19:14,910 --> 00:19:11,320
to a place called mineral I made another

390
00:19:17,670 --> 00:19:14,920
u-turn he to head back east and it was

391
00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:17,680
after this you turn the search heading

392
00:19:23,750 --> 00:19:20,610
east that the sighting occurred and

393
00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:23,760
began in a rather startling way that I

394
00:19:30,090 --> 00:19:25,930
guess I'm the first person to have

395
00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:30,100
picked up on it his claim that suddenly

396
00:19:33,690 --> 00:19:31,690
he got a flash of light on his air

397
00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:33,700
secure the surface of his aircraft

398
00:19:38,190 --> 00:19:35,890
lit up like somebody shine a flashlight

399
00:19:42,270 --> 00:19:38,200
or something at the surface of the

400
00:19:45,630 --> 00:19:42,280
aircraft and this startled him his first

401
00:19:48,030 --> 00:19:45,640
thought was that some airplane had

402
00:19:50,070 --> 00:19:48,040
gotten near to me and he got a flash of

403
00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:50,080
sunlight reflected sunlight awesome

404
00:19:55,800 --> 00:19:52,090
airplane was Henry clicker got any ideas

405
00:19:57,990 --> 00:19:55,810
aircraft and he is so really probably a

406
00:20:00,270 --> 00:19:58,000
little bit apprehensive of what it could

407
00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:00,280
be he said looking around for any other

408
00:20:04,020 --> 00:20:00,970
aircraft

409
00:20:09,780 --> 00:20:04,030
there was one north of him north what

410
00:20:13,950 --> 00:20:09,790
north northwest DC for his for Seattle I

411
00:20:16,170 --> 00:20:13,960
guess yesterday today miles away

412
00:20:18,270 --> 00:20:16,180
certainly wasn't what caused the flash

413
00:20:20,190 --> 00:20:18,280
but as he's looking around looking

414
00:20:22,830 --> 00:20:20,200
around all this in another flash and

415
00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:22,840
this time he saw it directly it was

416
00:20:29,919 --> 00:20:26,290
north of him far to his right for more

417
00:20:32,109 --> 00:20:29,929
he was south east south west of long

418
00:20:35,350 --> 00:20:32,119
here this thing appeared to be up of

419
00:20:38,009 --> 00:20:35,360
those near mountain called Baker about

420
00:20:41,049 --> 00:20:38,019
100 and some miles away that's what he

421
00:20:44,619 --> 00:20:41,059
thought in the book I argue that it was

422
00:20:46,930 --> 00:20:44,629
more likely 60 miles away to where these

423
00:20:49,810 --> 00:20:46,940
things were first seen by Arnold but

424
00:20:51,970 --> 00:20:49,820
anyway he looks at this and he realizes

425
00:20:54,399 --> 00:20:51,980
he's seeing a group not not one thing

426
00:20:58,600 --> 00:20:54,409
but a group of objects flying in a sort

427
00:21:00,210 --> 00:20:58,610
of a jiggly line the first object being

428
00:21:03,909 --> 00:21:00,220
the highest one often the others

429
00:21:06,940 --> 00:21:03,919
stepwise going downwards and flying

430
00:21:08,769 --> 00:21:06,950
along zigzag sort of manner but on an

431
00:21:12,399 --> 00:21:08,779
average course was he thought was about

432
00:21:14,409 --> 00:21:12,409
160 170 degrees that is almost due south

433
00:21:17,139 --> 00:21:14,419
and he could see that they were going to

434
00:21:17,799 --> 00:21:17,149
pass go past his side the west side of

435
00:21:21,249 --> 00:21:17,809
Mount Ranier

436
00:21:23,169 --> 00:21:21,259
and he said he stared at these things

437
00:21:26,859 --> 00:21:23,179
the first thing he realized was he

438
00:21:31,989 --> 00:21:26,869
couldn't see anything familiar no wings

439
00:21:34,570 --> 00:21:31,999
no vertical stabilizer no engines not a

440
00:21:36,879 --> 00:21:34,580
t-shape something else you couldn't see

441
00:21:39,570 --> 00:21:36,889
the shape too well but these things were

442
00:21:41,919 --> 00:21:39,580
tilting west and right front back away

443
00:21:44,590 --> 00:21:41,929
here comes the here comes the famous

444
00:21:46,899 --> 00:21:44,600
phrase the way a saucer would have

445
00:21:49,269 --> 00:21:46,909
skipped on the water on evening

446
00:21:51,669 --> 00:21:49,279
initially call it a stone or whatever

447
00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:51,679
the idea of something skipping on the

448
00:21:57,310 --> 00:21:56,330
water it tilts left way down as well as

449
00:21:59,619 --> 00:21:57,320
it bottoms wrong

450
00:22:02,109 --> 00:21:59,629
so these wobbly things were coming along

451
00:22:04,690 --> 00:22:02,119
as they got closer he could as I said

452
00:22:07,299 --> 00:22:04,700
you can see the there weren't any edges

453
00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:07,309
or anything that he was familiar with he

454
00:22:12,220 --> 00:22:10,490
said when they tilted enough there was a

455
00:22:14,139 --> 00:22:12,230
week ago between him and I were near

456
00:22:16,509 --> 00:22:14,149
where they were fly along and they

457
00:22:19,499 --> 00:22:16,519
pulled it up enough he could see a sort

458
00:22:24,330 --> 00:22:19,509
of a semicircular shape with a convex

459
00:22:27,039 --> 00:22:24,340
triangle point like a pointed rear end

460
00:22:29,919 --> 00:22:27,049
for nine of eight of these nine out of

461
00:22:33,249 --> 00:22:29,929
his he counted nine four and five four

462
00:22:33,850 --> 00:22:33,259
in a gap and then five and the next to

463
00:22:36,669 --> 00:22:33,860
the last one

464
00:22:38,489 --> 00:22:36,679
he remembered later was different it was

465
00:22:41,349 --> 00:22:38,499
a head double Crescent

466
00:22:42,970 --> 00:22:41,359
indentation Crescent on the rear end

467
00:22:47,409 --> 00:22:42,980
so somebody circular will

468
00:22:49,930 --> 00:22:47,419
those crispa the back I was he thought

469
00:22:52,419 --> 00:22:49,940
that was a special one or something but

470
00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:52,429
the others clearly were different from

471
00:22:58,030 --> 00:22:55,330
any ordinary aircraft the nothing he saw

472
00:22:59,860 --> 00:22:58,040
reminded him of something that he was in

473
00:23:02,590 --> 00:22:59,870
Iowa but also they were growing

474
00:23:04,180 --> 00:23:02,600
extremely rapidly Bruce I'm going to

475
00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:04,190
have to interrupt you here because we're

476
00:23:07,539 --> 00:23:05,570
coming up at our bottom of the hour

477
00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:07,549
break so when we come back we will

478
00:23:12,010 --> 00:23:09,890
continue this conversation you're

479
00:23:24,700 --> 00:23:12,020
listening to exploring the bizarre on

480
00:23:27,310 --> 00:23:24,710
kcal already now back to exploring the

481
00:23:29,590 --> 00:23:27,320
bizarre with two of the most

482
00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:29,600
electrifying researchers were paranoid

483
00:23:37,180 --> 00:23:33,410
your hostess Timothy evacuate and King

484
00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:37,190
Swartz all right welcome back to

485
00:23:42,250 --> 00:23:39,410
exploring the bizarre before we had to

486
00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:42,260
go to our break dr. Maccabee you were

487
00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:43,490
describing

488
00:23:49,120 --> 00:23:48,010
Kenneth Arnold's initial sighting in

489
00:23:54,130 --> 00:23:49,130
1947

490
00:23:58,560 --> 00:23:54,140
now the objects that he witnessed were

491
00:24:01,780 --> 00:23:58,570
not the the flying saucer shape that

492
00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:01,790
became synonymous with the phenomena

493
00:24:07,419 --> 00:24:04,970
what just exactly what was he seen how

494
00:24:10,289 --> 00:24:07,429
are he described these semicircular

495
00:24:14,789 --> 00:24:10,299
objects with surly triangular convex

496
00:24:19,350 --> 00:24:14,799
rear-end for eight of them and one has

497
00:24:23,710 --> 00:24:21,669
there's anything at all he was familiar

498
00:24:25,659 --> 00:24:23,720
with and they're going in a very high

499
00:24:26,860 --> 00:24:25,669
rate of speed so I guess he decided to

500
00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:26,870
take a chance that he might be able to

501
00:24:33,730 --> 00:24:28,850
measure their speed he was flying about

502
00:24:37,900 --> 00:24:33,740
9,500 feet of the food Malini is 14400 I

503
00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:37,910
was about 25 miles northeast of Kenneth

504
00:24:43,030 --> 00:24:39,530
I when he's first when he saw these

505
00:24:44,799 --> 00:24:43,040
others going past alone he thought well

506
00:24:50,380 --> 00:24:44,809
why they keep going straight down past

507
00:24:51,700 --> 00:24:50,390
Mount Adams well 50 miles south he could

508
00:24:54,669 --> 00:24:51,710
see when they went past Mount Adams

509
00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:54,679
because it was a very clear day one of

510
00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:56,450
the things about this particular day was

511
00:25:05,410 --> 00:24:56,690
he

512
00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:05,420
rear and that was really close to him 27

513
00:25:13,660 --> 00:25:07,610
miles now you can see when they went

514
00:25:16,540 --> 00:25:13,670
past Bombay Adams about 50 miles south

515
00:25:18,670 --> 00:25:16,550
of the mantra here and he had a clock on

516
00:25:21,700 --> 00:25:18,680
his dashboard so he looked at the

517
00:25:24,940 --> 00:25:21,710
sweeper secondhand as first was going

518
00:25:28,900 --> 00:25:24,950
past the edge of a mountaineer and it

519
00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:28,910
said keeping time t-taking as time went

520
00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:31,850
on he continued to look at the objects

521
00:25:36,910 --> 00:25:34,490
eaters playing to the right and moved

522
00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:36,920
his window open so he can with any

523
00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:39,530
possible reflections of whatever he was

524
00:25:42,850 --> 00:25:40,730
seeing definitely what he was seeing

525
00:25:47,380 --> 00:25:42,860
another reflections off glass or

526
00:25:49,060 --> 00:25:47,390
something and he was at that point

527
00:25:50,740 --> 00:25:49,070
flying parallel to the path of the

528
00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:50,750
objects but they were of course

529
00:25:57,190 --> 00:25:53,090
outrunning him by a while or ten miles a

530
00:25:59,290 --> 00:25:57,200
hundred miles whatever and he watched

531
00:26:01,060 --> 00:25:59,300
until he saw it by their flashes he

532
00:26:02,740 --> 00:26:01,070
could see a long distance away by the

533
00:26:07,120 --> 00:26:02,750
flashes of light that they were making

534
00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:07,130
and he saw as they went past upon Adams

535
00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:12,170
his Clark showed 102 seconds had passed

536
00:26:18,730 --> 00:26:15,890
and later I found out how far these

537
00:26:21,610 --> 00:26:18,740
mountains were prior about 50 miles and

538
00:26:25,360 --> 00:26:21,620
they did it 102 seconds it comes out

539
00:26:27,310 --> 00:26:25,370
around 1700 miles an hour which he

540
00:26:29,380 --> 00:26:27,320
couldn't believe so when he told people

541
00:26:31,990 --> 00:26:29,390
that he did a calculation he officer

542
00:26:34,900 --> 00:26:32,000
said it was it probably was mistaken or

543
00:26:37,300 --> 00:26:34,910
than 17-hundred was maybe only 1200 but

544
00:26:39,070 --> 00:26:37,310
based on what here is his own report if

545
00:26:42,190 --> 00:26:39,080
you analyze his report carefully there's

546
00:26:45,310 --> 00:26:42,200
no reason why he wasn't accurate enough

547
00:26:46,630 --> 00:26:45,320
to accept that they were doing 1700

548
00:26:48,910 --> 00:26:46,640
miles an hour now to put that in

549
00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:48,920
perspective the first guy to break the

550
00:26:54,790 --> 00:26:53,450
sound barrier is his OA in September of

551
00:26:56,890 --> 00:26:54,800
nineteen forty seven that's seven

552
00:26:58,930 --> 00:26:56,900
hundred and some miles an hour and these

553
00:27:05,050 --> 00:26:58,940
are things by a thousand miles an hour

554
00:27:09,370 --> 00:27:05,060
faster already so it makes it that makes

555
00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:09,380
it an incredible report I mean it really

556
00:27:14,549 --> 00:27:10,690
ups the ante

557
00:27:16,979 --> 00:27:14,559
even when you can consider what what the

558
00:27:19,499 --> 00:27:16,989
speed of the objects were in comparison

559
00:27:23,099 --> 00:27:19,509
to what the speed of ordinary planes

560
00:27:26,310 --> 00:27:23,109
were at that time right there's more

561
00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:26,320
there's a deeper sort of understanding

562
00:27:31,529 --> 00:27:27,970
it must be others that must be

563
00:27:35,430 --> 00:27:31,539
understood here he how many people would

564
00:27:38,219 --> 00:27:35,440
think to try and measure the speed of

565
00:27:39,509 --> 00:27:38,229
some objects that you are familiar with

566
00:27:42,570 --> 00:27:39,519
they're just traveling along at high

567
00:27:44,430 --> 00:27:42,580
speed in a most people would sit there

568
00:27:48,570 --> 00:27:44,440
in the airplane with a chin on the floor

569
00:27:50,580 --> 00:27:48,580
maybe saying wow that was fast I wanna

570
00:27:53,089 --> 00:27:50,590
know I'm brought on all of the speed was

571
00:27:57,450 --> 00:27:53,099
so he took a chance that he could use to

572
00:28:01,609 --> 00:27:57,460
two things sticking up into the sky that

573
00:28:04,019 --> 00:28:01,619
is a mount or their amount of atoms as

574
00:28:05,969 --> 00:28:04,029
geographical points that he could

575
00:28:07,830 --> 00:28:05,979
measure is the time it takes to go from

576
00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:07,840
one to the other find out what the

577
00:28:10,349 --> 00:28:09,129
distance was and then come up with a

578
00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:10,359
speed

579
00:28:15,269 --> 00:28:13,330
he also made a measurement of we would

580
00:28:19,019 --> 00:28:15,279
call angular size of the objects

581
00:28:23,849 --> 00:28:19,029
compared that with a this angular size

582
00:28:25,830 --> 00:28:23,859
of a DC for airplane those he thought

583
00:28:27,089 --> 00:28:25,840
fifteen miles north of them and that

584
00:28:29,129 --> 00:28:27,099
gave him the impression that these

585
00:28:33,659 --> 00:28:29,139
things are maybe 60 feet long for front

586
00:28:38,399 --> 00:28:33,669
the back maybe it was when I myself in

587
00:28:40,499 --> 00:28:38,409
probably 100 but in any case he provided

588
00:28:43,049 --> 00:28:40,509
information from what you could estimate

589
00:28:44,099 --> 00:28:43,059
the size of the object and the

590
00:28:47,690 --> 00:28:44,109
information from which you could

591
00:28:51,629 --> 00:28:47,700
calculate the speed of these things and

592
00:28:55,529 --> 00:28:51,639
that adds a considerable credibility

593
00:28:57,479 --> 00:28:55,539
this to this event he actually got it

594
00:28:58,649 --> 00:28:57,489
right because it was clear that he

595
00:29:01,259 --> 00:28:58,659
wasn't just sort of sitting there

596
00:29:03,180 --> 00:29:01,269
twiddling his thumbs as time went on he

597
00:29:05,729 --> 00:29:03,190
was actually thinking of what was going

598
00:29:08,549 --> 00:29:05,739
on and sort of figured out keeping track

599
00:29:11,369 --> 00:29:08,559
of what these objects did like he says

600
00:29:12,690 --> 00:29:11,379
they went down there as they got soft a

601
00:29:15,330 --> 00:29:12,700
moment here they were going in and out

602
00:29:17,729 --> 00:29:15,340
of the mountain peaks in leaa the chain

603
00:29:21,180 --> 00:29:17,739
of mountains safa vernier on the way to

604
00:29:23,060 --> 00:29:21,190
on towards uh on Adams and then in my

605
00:29:26,260 --> 00:29:23,070
book I include the

606
00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:26,270
exciting which occurred when a

607
00:29:32,150 --> 00:29:29,130
prospector who was on Mount Adams saw

608
00:29:36,860 --> 00:29:32,160
these objects go by and apparently saw

609
00:29:40,010 --> 00:29:36,870
Kenneth arrows objects just as I was

610
00:29:42,380 --> 00:29:40,020
losing sight of them I tell more about

611
00:29:45,230 --> 00:29:42,390
that yeah yeah all right well Bruce

612
00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:45,240
we'll we'll get back to our Arnold's

613
00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:46,770
original sighting just a while but I do

614
00:29:52,780 --> 00:29:49,650
want to bring on his granddaughter

615
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:52,790
Chanel because she's with us tonight and

616
00:29:58,430 --> 00:29:55,170
she's been on the program with us before

617
00:30:01,270 --> 00:29:58,440
and she's certainly part of this a great

618
00:30:03,980 --> 00:30:01,280
anniversary Chanel how are you doing oh

619
00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:03,990
I'm doing good it's an honor being on

620
00:30:08,150 --> 00:30:05,850
with Bruce he's very knowledgeable about

621
00:30:11,660 --> 00:30:08,160
my grandfather and he obviously knows

622
00:30:14,090 --> 00:30:11,670
more about the the sighting than anyone

623
00:30:16,940 --> 00:30:14,100
that I I know about in fact over the

624
00:30:18,410 --> 00:30:16,950
years not that any of these people would

625
00:30:21,910 --> 00:30:18,420
have even interviewed Kenneth Arnold

626
00:30:24,290 --> 00:30:21,920
probably the the sightings have been

627
00:30:25,370 --> 00:30:24,300
poo-pooed by some researchers saying

628
00:30:29,330 --> 00:30:25,380
that or they were just conventional

629
00:30:32,060 --> 00:30:29,340
objects or geese or whatever explanation

630
00:30:35,330 --> 00:30:32,070
they could come up with the at the time

631
00:30:37,370 --> 00:30:35,340
but Chanel why did you grow up with with

632
00:30:42,740 --> 00:30:37,380
UFOs I mean when did you first know that

633
00:30:45,230 --> 00:30:42,750
your grandfather in essence was the

634
00:30:48,740 --> 00:30:45,240
originator of the modern-day UFO

635
00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:48,750
phenomena oh my gosh our family was just

636
00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:51,330
raised the synchronicity and I mean I

637
00:30:56,270 --> 00:30:54,090
was born on a 30th year of the

638
00:30:58,220 --> 00:30:56,280
anniversary of the signing and I and I

639
00:30:58,580 --> 00:30:58,230
ended up getting married on the sixtieth

640
00:31:01,190 --> 00:30:58,590
year

641
00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:01,200
evander you know I would I included this

642
00:31:06,799 --> 00:31:03,210
in my book on synchronicities that I

643
00:31:09,710 --> 00:31:06,809
just did but I didn't know Jerry and now

644
00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:09,720
I'm he in this he might like they played

645
00:31:14,570 --> 00:31:11,850
a part in in in some of the things that

646
00:31:16,669 --> 00:31:14,580
happen and your grandfather's life over

647
00:31:24,980 --> 00:31:16,679
the years and we'll get into that but I

648
00:31:29,210 --> 00:31:24,990
didn't mean in a reprimand all that well

649
00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:29,220
my my mother definitely has been the one

650
00:31:34,700 --> 00:31:31,770
carrying the torch of my grandfather and

651
00:31:36,529 --> 00:31:34,710
and I grew up with all the documents and

652
00:31:38,930 --> 00:31:36,539
everything that he was um

653
00:31:41,629 --> 00:31:38,940
sense because he was like pretty much

654
00:31:47,149 --> 00:31:41,639
the most famous man in the world in 1947

655
00:31:49,549 --> 00:31:47,159
I knew I mean he he died in 1984 but he

656
00:31:51,379 --> 00:31:49,559
you know told me to think for myself and

657
00:31:52,849 --> 00:31:51,389
not trust the government and just

658
00:31:54,619 --> 00:31:52,859
growing up hearing about all the stories

659
00:31:57,459 --> 00:31:54,629
of what he went through trying to prove

660
00:32:00,109 --> 00:31:57,469
the biggest secret of mankind you know

661
00:32:04,399 --> 00:32:00,119
everyone wants to know if we're not

662
00:32:09,469 --> 00:32:04,409
alone and you know what the big picture

663
00:32:12,859 --> 00:32:09,479
is and he would be so overwhelmed today

664
00:32:14,509 --> 00:32:12,869
to know that he's in books and he's

665
00:32:18,909 --> 00:32:14,519
being preserved for history and that's

666
00:32:22,399 --> 00:32:18,919
like my goal is for him to be recognized

667
00:32:24,259 --> 00:32:22,409
for history for his historic finding

668
00:32:27,199 --> 00:32:24,269
that he had that and he was the first

669
00:32:29,839 --> 00:32:27,209
credible witness and you know definitely

670
00:32:32,239 --> 00:32:29,849
I'm going to school I I want to write a

671
00:32:35,629 --> 00:32:32,249
book my mom's waiting for the right

672
00:32:38,959 --> 00:32:35,639
opportunity to do something historical

673
00:32:40,489 --> 00:32:38,969
and there's some projects that are

674
00:32:43,099 --> 00:32:40,499
taking a little while longer that are

675
00:32:47,029 --> 00:32:43,109
coming out about some of the documents

676
00:32:49,099 --> 00:32:47,039
and my grandfather was just you know he

677
00:32:53,419 --> 00:32:49,109
got sent so much stuff he had friends in

678
00:32:55,549 --> 00:32:53,429
the military you know I just grew up

679
00:32:57,289 --> 00:32:55,559
with around all these documents that

680
00:32:59,509 --> 00:32:57,299
were top secret and I would look through

681
00:33:02,599 --> 00:32:59,519
and read them and see pictures that were

682
00:33:04,279 --> 00:33:02,609
unexplainable and I just I feel like I'm

683
00:33:07,189 --> 00:33:04,289
in the right generation to carry the

684
00:33:10,279 --> 00:33:07,199
torch if my mother you know gets

685
00:33:12,469 --> 00:33:10,289
slepping done with the information that

686
00:33:14,979 --> 00:33:12,479
she has and and you know we definitely

687
00:33:19,339 --> 00:33:14,989
want him um

688
00:33:21,619 --> 00:33:19,349
historically represented accurately I I

689
00:33:24,430 --> 00:33:21,629
know on Wikipedia it says that he lived

690
00:33:27,169 --> 00:33:24,440
in Bellevue Washington but he actually

691
00:33:30,699 --> 00:33:27,179
died in Bellevue Washington and was

692
00:33:33,469 --> 00:33:30,709
living in Meridian Idaho yes

693
00:33:37,189 --> 00:33:33,479
big-big dad well I know you have

694
00:33:41,269 --> 00:33:37,199
preserved his sighting on your back with

695
00:33:45,019 --> 00:33:41,279
a very beautiful tattoo which oh yeah

696
00:33:47,719 --> 00:33:45,029
which shows the the objects of the

697
00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:47,729
flying in the information very realistic

698
00:33:51,650 --> 00:33:49,890
in indeed would

699
00:33:54,350 --> 00:33:51,660
you get that tat by the way I never did

700
00:33:57,620 --> 00:33:54,360
they ask you that I don't think um I got

701
00:34:00,590 --> 00:33:57,630
it when I was about 33 and my my oldest

702
00:34:02,620 --> 00:34:00,600
daughter sapphire she's getting some

703
00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:02,630
flying saucers done on her back and she

704
00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:05,490
always asked me mom you're gonna have to

705
00:34:09,889 --> 00:34:07,530
tell me about great grandfather so I

706
00:34:11,659 --> 00:34:09,899
know what to tell people because you

707
00:34:14,240 --> 00:34:11,669
know she feels like she is going to be

708
00:34:17,270 --> 00:34:14,250
carrying carrying on his legacy you know

709
00:34:21,020 --> 00:34:17,280
at some point and I'm very proud of what

710
00:34:22,720 --> 00:34:21,030
he did you know he was just the first

711
00:34:24,710 --> 00:34:22,730
credible witness I mean there was just

712
00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:24,720
there's been a lot of things that

713
00:34:30,830 --> 00:34:26,850
happened in history that that were just

714
00:34:33,139 --> 00:34:30,840
put aside because you know he thought

715
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:33,149
there a Russian Russian military

716
00:34:36,950 --> 00:34:34,890
intelligence he didn't know what they

717
00:34:39,860 --> 00:34:36,960
were and he felt like he needed to

718
00:34:43,159 --> 00:34:39,870
report it well we will get into that a

719
00:34:48,169 --> 00:34:43,169
little bit after the the the next break

720
00:34:50,210 --> 00:34:48,179
I have a whole web report in the chapter

721
00:34:52,850 --> 00:34:50,220
in the book I just sent you did you get

722
00:34:54,620 --> 00:34:52,860
that in the mail yet - Chanelle oh no I

723
00:34:57,500 --> 00:34:54,630
haven't got round looking for it yeah

724
00:34:59,540 --> 00:34:57,510
okay anyway there's a list you of course

725
00:35:02,210 --> 00:34:59,550
we know that your grandfather had

726
00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:02,220
several sightings and he had some very

727
00:35:07,430 --> 00:35:04,130
strange things that did happen to him

728
00:35:12,650 --> 00:35:07,440
later on and probably was the first

729
00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:12,660
person to be a kind of confrontational

730
00:35:16,700 --> 00:35:14,370
with the the men in black or the

731
00:35:18,830 --> 00:35:16,710
silencers or whatever you want to call

732
00:35:22,190 --> 00:35:18,840
that because that deals with the Mori

733
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:22,200
Island incident which Ray Palmer sent

734
00:35:29,870 --> 00:35:26,010
him out to investigate and apparently

735
00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:29,880
through some very suspicious means we

736
00:35:34,130 --> 00:35:31,290
don't even really know how because

737
00:35:37,940 --> 00:35:34,140
bugging rooms was not I don't think the

738
00:35:40,070 --> 00:35:37,950
way to go in those days right someone

739
00:35:41,750 --> 00:35:40,080
somewhere was overhearing the

740
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:41,760
conversation that was going on in the

741
00:35:49,790 --> 00:35:43,890
hotel room with the witnesses from that

742
00:35:51,230 --> 00:35:49,800
particular incident but well what what

743
00:35:54,340 --> 00:35:51,240
did you think when you when you first

744
00:35:57,050 --> 00:35:54,350
well have you ever had a UFO sighting oh

745
00:35:58,670 --> 00:35:57,060
yeah I have I want to get to the fact

746
00:36:00,350 --> 00:35:58,680
that when the morning island thing was

747
00:36:02,240 --> 00:36:00,360
going on when he went to investigate a

748
00:36:03,740 --> 00:36:02,250
Ray Palmer it paid him from fate

749
00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:03,750
magazine to investigate

750
00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:06,450
and he swore his hotel was being bugged

751
00:36:14,270 --> 00:36:09,890
but he was going to do some Club

752
00:36:16,070 --> 00:36:14,280
seminars here in locally in Idaho and he

753
00:36:18,410 --> 00:36:16,080
was visited by the men in black that

754
00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:18,420
drove him out to the desert out here in

755
00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:21,330
Idaho and said you know you need do you

756
00:36:26,570 --> 00:36:22,890
care for your family the government

757
00:36:32,089 --> 00:36:26,580
eliminates our own men you need to stop

758
00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:32,099
being public you know and so I I've done

759
00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:33,210
a little bit of reading on the Mauri

760
00:36:38,359 --> 00:36:36,690
Island incident but he was definitely

761
00:36:41,270 --> 00:36:38,369
visited by the men in black here and

762
00:36:44,720 --> 00:36:41,280
locally you know being public with what

763
00:36:48,349 --> 00:36:44,730
he has seen and nowadays you know it's

764
00:36:50,930 --> 00:36:48,359
it's more open and more public and not

765
00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:50,940
so hush-hush but my family went through

766
00:36:57,740 --> 00:36:54,330
a lot of grief back in those days saying

767
00:36:59,990 --> 00:36:57,750
like my grandfather was crazy and and my

768
00:37:02,630 --> 00:37:00,000
aunts were ridiculed in school over it

769
00:37:04,310 --> 00:37:02,640
and you know now nowadays kind of normal

770
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:04,320
for people to have beautiful experiences

771
00:37:09,829 --> 00:37:08,010
but but back then I mean my my family

772
00:37:11,660 --> 00:37:09,839
was made fun of horribly and my

773
00:37:14,300 --> 00:37:11,670
grandfather was credible he was a pilot

774
00:37:17,720 --> 00:37:14,310
you have to pass test to be a pilot you

775
00:37:22,130 --> 00:37:17,730
know and and he was just treated he died

776
00:37:24,020 --> 00:37:22,140
so disappointed that he felt he felt

777
00:37:27,829 --> 00:37:24,030
like his whole you know cause and life

778
00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:27,839
was to figure out this mystery and he I

779
00:37:33,859 --> 00:37:29,970
know he died really really burned out

780
00:37:35,870 --> 00:37:33,869
and disappointed well but I I'm proud of

781
00:37:38,210 --> 00:37:35,880
how it turned out today and you know

782
00:37:41,390 --> 00:37:38,220
this day and age he's on TV you know

783
00:37:44,150 --> 00:37:41,400
he's been he's being credited by Bruce

784
00:37:46,490 --> 00:37:44,160
Maccabee and Annie there's a new book

785
00:37:48,859 --> 00:37:46,500
for Twin Peaks it's a secret history at

786
00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:48,869
Twin Peaks and they put him in that book

787
00:37:58,099 --> 00:37:54,450
as a character you know as I I do have

788
00:38:01,270 --> 00:37:58,109
the I do know over the years that he did

789
00:38:03,980 --> 00:38:01,280
have sort of an ongoing I don't know a

790
00:38:06,579 --> 00:38:03,990
confrontational attitude towards the

791
00:38:10,310 --> 00:38:06,589
press who he field I guess had

792
00:38:14,030 --> 00:38:10,320
mistreated him to some to some point oh

793
00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:14,040
yeah yeah he he didn't like his last

794
00:38:17,150 --> 00:38:15,570
London interview I don't know if you

795
00:38:17,630 --> 00:38:17,160
guys had ever seen that but he felt like

796
00:38:20,180 --> 00:38:17,640
he was

797
00:38:22,609 --> 00:38:20,190
represented and he turned down $50,000

798
00:38:24,559 --> 00:38:22,619
from Doubleday books in the 60s because

799
00:38:26,839 --> 00:38:24,569
they wanted to fictionalize historian he

800
00:38:30,319 --> 00:38:26,849
he didn't want to have his story

801
00:38:32,779 --> 00:38:30,329
fictionalized he wanted it true and you

802
00:38:34,940 --> 00:38:32,789
know rightly documented for history he

803
00:38:36,829 --> 00:38:34,950
didn't want it fictionalized and that

804
00:38:39,079 --> 00:38:36,839
caused a huge fight with my grandmother

805
00:38:43,759 --> 00:38:39,089
in him you know fifty thousand dollars

806
00:38:46,190 --> 00:38:43,769
alive in the 1964 bed yeah but yeah he

807
00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:46,200
just he definitely wanted everything you

808
00:38:51,380 --> 00:38:48,930
know correct for history and and I you

809
00:38:53,329 --> 00:38:51,390
know I I wish I wish to god he give you

810
00:38:56,329 --> 00:38:53,339
this you know here in this day and age

811
00:38:57,980 --> 00:38:56,339
and now because you know so many doors

812
00:39:01,430 --> 00:38:57,990
have been opened by it from what he

813
00:39:04,670 --> 00:39:01,440
experienced and reported somehow you

814
00:39:06,829 --> 00:39:04,680
said that he he was disappointed you

815
00:39:09,559 --> 00:39:06,839
know that that he passed away in like

816
00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:09,569
burnout and disappointed did he feel

817
00:39:18,890 --> 00:39:13,170
that the government had you know

818
00:39:20,210 --> 00:39:18,900
deliberately obscured the investigation

819
00:39:20,900 --> 00:39:20,220
I mean not only with him but with

820
00:39:23,690 --> 00:39:20,910
everything

821
00:39:25,190 --> 00:39:23,700
well he got Project Blue Book documents

822
00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:25,200
saying that the government was covering

823
00:39:27,559 --> 00:39:25,650
it up

824
00:39:29,210 --> 00:39:27,569
and I've read those I took him to a

825
00:39:30,859 --> 00:39:29,220
radio station here locally because my

826
00:39:34,370 --> 00:39:30,869
friend worked for the radio station and

827
00:39:37,370 --> 00:39:34,380
we copy them pass tomorrow and he'll but

828
00:39:38,839 --> 00:39:37,380
I mean he he knew it was a huge cover-up

829
00:39:41,809 --> 00:39:38,849
and the government wasn't being truthful

830
00:39:44,839 --> 00:39:41,819
and he always thought that you know the

831
00:39:47,059 --> 00:39:44,849
whole life of John F Kennedy jr. had

832
00:39:49,490 --> 00:39:47,069
serious disease in it and you know we're

833
00:39:52,490 --> 00:39:49,500
here for a bigger picture but but like

834
00:39:55,249 --> 00:39:52,500
he was given the copyright to the coming

835
00:39:56,420 --> 00:39:55,259
of the saucers and he was so burnt out

836
00:39:58,220 --> 00:39:56,430
by the end of his life he didn't even

837
00:40:01,579 --> 00:39:58,230
copyright that book and now everybody's

838
00:40:03,259 --> 00:40:01,589
publishing it because he just he felt

839
00:40:06,950 --> 00:40:03,269
like it was a lost cause and he had

840
00:40:08,720 --> 00:40:06,960
wrote that book with Ray Palmer and it's

841
00:40:10,970 --> 00:40:08,730
a big disappointment because like we

842
00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:10,980
can't do anything to get that copyright

843
00:40:15,289 --> 00:40:13,410
copyright back cept but yeah the popular

844
00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:15,299
copyright would have expired by now

845
00:40:20,420 --> 00:40:18,210
anyway there's a oh yeah going back to

846
00:40:23,029 --> 00:40:20,430
that time but what you what you can do

847
00:40:25,460 --> 00:40:23,039
is take the book and add another fifty

848
00:40:29,930 --> 00:40:25,470
pages and then the book is copyrighted I

849
00:40:31,130 --> 00:40:29,940
mean you know nobody okay the coming of

850
00:40:34,310 --> 00:40:31,140
the saucers updated

851
00:40:38,590 --> 00:40:34,320
yeah very high okay incorporating my

852
00:40:41,270 --> 00:40:38,600
buck with yours expansion here you know

853
00:40:45,460 --> 00:40:41,280
we we do that we do that all the time

854
00:40:48,770 --> 00:40:45,470
with her with her with our books but

855
00:40:50,840 --> 00:40:48,780
okay so that way what was the attitude

856
00:40:53,330 --> 00:40:50,850
okay going to the school and all as a

857
00:40:56,090 --> 00:40:53,340
teenager I mean did you find that people

858
00:40:59,870 --> 00:40:56,100
were kind of sneering it you know at you

859
00:41:01,820 --> 00:40:59,880
or your your granddad or no I I grew up

860
00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:01,830
being more accepted about it and like a

861
00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:03,930
lot of people I went to school at no you

862
00:41:07,550 --> 00:41:06,090
know knew me as a flying saucer girl you

863
00:41:11,390 --> 00:41:07,560
know because they who my grandfather was

864
00:41:12,620 --> 00:41:11,400
and you know boy she's pretty small I've

865
00:41:15,020 --> 00:41:12,630
lived here all my life and this was

866
00:41:17,210 --> 00:41:15,030
where my grandfather lived and you know

867
00:41:20,690 --> 00:41:17,220
it's great that he put Boise Idaho on

868
00:41:22,460 --> 00:41:20,700
the map you know well I'd like people I

869
00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:22,470
don't think many people know or realize

870
00:41:28,010 --> 00:41:25,770
that your grandfather once ran for what

871
00:41:30,890 --> 00:41:28,020
was it lieutenant governor yeah he ran

872
00:41:33,740 --> 00:41:30,900
for governor and he met President

873
00:41:37,640 --> 00:41:33,750
Eisenhower I know this ad would publish

874
00:41:40,220 --> 00:41:37,650
to the to it yeah yeah yeah the 7:01

875
00:41:42,610 --> 00:41:40,230
movie is taking longer than expected but

876
00:41:45,830 --> 00:41:42,620
that picture is going to be in the movie

877
00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:45,840
so hopefully hopefully that gets done

878
00:41:53,390 --> 00:41:47,850
but I would what you now have is that

879
00:41:57,290 --> 00:41:53,400
what movies up the 701 I yeah is by a

880
00:42:00,680 --> 00:41:57,300
James Fox and Tracy Torme okay so movie

881
00:42:02,690 --> 00:42:00,690
that was collaborated yeah and it's just

882
00:42:06,460 --> 00:42:02,700
take it's taken longer than expected but

883
00:42:10,490 --> 00:42:06,470
my mom you know was in the movie so

884
00:42:13,070 --> 00:42:10,500
there is named after the 701 cases of

885
00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:13,080
the FF horse probably will claim they

886
00:42:19,250 --> 00:42:15,930
couldn't explain out of 13,000 yeah

887
00:42:21,950 --> 00:42:19,260
there have been a code AHA the wind

888
00:42:24,440 --> 00:42:21,960
project Bluebook well what was the

889
00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:24,450
Kenneth Arnold story was in his sighting

890
00:42:29,510 --> 00:42:26,490
was in the the project a blue book

891
00:42:30,740 --> 00:42:29,520
report Bruce oh yes I was one of the

892
00:42:34,740 --> 00:42:30,750
many sightings that they collected

893
00:42:42,210 --> 00:42:38,430
he is starting mermaid in national and

894
00:42:46,160 --> 00:42:42,220
international news for a short time and

895
00:42:50,700 --> 00:42:46,170
as Chanel can probably tell you the

896
00:42:53,430 --> 00:42:50,710
number of sightings per day was on the

897
00:42:55,980 --> 00:42:53,440
increase but actually maybe 18 other

898
00:42:58,100 --> 00:42:55,990
sightings on the same day as Kenz but

899
00:43:00,150 --> 00:42:58,110
cal vinyl siding was the one that

900
00:43:03,150 --> 00:43:00,160
attracted the interest because he was a

901
00:43:05,220 --> 00:43:03,160
pilot and he told us told of this

902
00:43:07,470 --> 00:43:05,230
sighting to some pilot friends and they

903
00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:07,480
told some news media people and the news

904
00:43:13,610 --> 00:43:09,010
video people pick up on it because it

905
00:43:16,670 --> 00:43:13,620
was a heck of a story objects flying

906
00:43:20,640 --> 00:43:16,680
extremely high speed could they be new

907
00:43:22,500 --> 00:43:20,650
secret aircraft or something so I might

908
00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:22,510
say under the cover of believing that

909
00:43:27,390 --> 00:43:24,490
are claiming that they were secret

910
00:43:30,810 --> 00:43:27,400
aircraft kind of Kenneth was able to get

911
00:43:32,520 --> 00:43:30,820
the data across to the world more or

912
00:43:35,640 --> 00:43:32,530
less so these things you do 1700 miles

913
00:43:38,340 --> 00:43:35,650
an hour and it was in the days after

914
00:43:40,940 --> 00:43:38,350
that the air force was querying about it

915
00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:40,950
and they said well it's not ours and

916
00:43:45,180 --> 00:43:43,090
people were afraid to a could possibly

917
00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:45,190
be the Russians but the air force didn't

918
00:43:48,780 --> 00:43:46,810
believe that the Russians could have

919
00:43:51,710 --> 00:43:48,790
made any great leaps you have

920
00:43:53,790 --> 00:43:51,720
understanded in the time frame of this

921
00:43:55,890 --> 00:43:53,800
1977 was only a couple years after the

922
00:43:57,450 --> 00:43:55,900
Second World War and during a second

923
00:44:02,580 --> 00:43:57,460
world war there were tremendous advances

924
00:44:07,140 --> 00:44:02,590
in types of war type Sciences like radar

925
00:44:10,140 --> 00:44:07,150
and stuff like that and of course the

926
00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:10,150
atomic bomb so people were almost ready

927
00:44:14,220 --> 00:44:12,850
to believe almost anything as possible

928
00:44:15,930 --> 00:44:14,230
with the things that they hadn't heard

929
00:44:18,540 --> 00:44:15,940
of it or secrets going on by the

930
00:44:20,580 --> 00:44:18,550
government and when the final report of

931
00:44:23,670 --> 00:44:20,590
these high-speed objects the first

932
00:44:25,710 --> 00:44:23,680
thought was this by the way his first

933
00:44:27,990 --> 00:44:25,720
thought too was that they were high

934
00:44:29,580 --> 00:44:28,000
speed jet aircraft he couldn't

935
00:44:31,530 --> 00:44:29,590
understand how they could fly with this

936
00:44:33,080 --> 00:44:31,540
wobbling motion and he didn't understand

937
00:44:36,380 --> 00:44:33,090
how I couldn't see engines or anything

938
00:44:38,700 --> 00:44:36,390
but he was trying to see them as

939
00:44:40,770 --> 00:44:38,710
conventional aircraft with some

940
00:44:42,870 --> 00:44:40,780
modification it turned out they were

941
00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:42,880
completely unconventional there was no

942
00:44:45,680 --> 00:44:44,170
wake or modify

943
00:44:49,339 --> 00:44:45,690
[Music]

944
00:44:51,589 --> 00:44:49,349
except of a t-shaped aircraft to turn in

945
00:44:53,060 --> 00:44:51,599
a semi-circle like like these things

946
00:44:55,849 --> 00:44:53,070
were so

947
00:44:58,490 --> 00:44:55,859
but as I said at first he was thinking

948
00:45:01,070 --> 00:44:58,500
that they might be Air Force jets and

949
00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:01,080
that's the way he explained it to his

950
00:45:07,579 --> 00:45:03,410
friends that he saw these new aircraft

951
00:45:09,349 --> 00:45:07,589
Air Force fighter jets and the the

952
00:45:11,420 --> 00:45:09,359
people of the airports where he talked

953
00:45:13,550 --> 00:45:11,430
about it tended to agree with him that

954
00:45:16,430 --> 00:45:13,560
must be what it is they didn't initially

955
00:45:18,050 --> 00:45:16,440
assumed that he was nuts they assumed

956
00:45:21,980 --> 00:45:18,060
that he was telling his act as

957
00:45:26,060 --> 00:45:21,990
accurately as he could and there was you

958
00:45:29,750 --> 00:45:26,070
calculated the results of his

959
00:45:31,490 --> 00:45:29,760
measurements you began to see that this

960
00:45:33,260 --> 00:45:31,500
is why this is impossible there's

961
00:45:37,450 --> 00:45:33,270
nothing there's not 1,700 miles ah

962
00:45:40,430 --> 00:45:37,460
there's a what did the Condon report

963
00:45:42,200 --> 00:45:40,440
conclude on the sighting did they have

964
00:45:45,410 --> 00:45:42,210
enlisted is unidentified or did they

965
00:45:49,579 --> 00:45:45,420
come up with some whacky explanation the

966
00:45:51,320 --> 00:45:49,589
Curan report was in 1968 69 David Muir I

967
00:45:53,839 --> 00:45:51,330
don't think they did more than mention

968
00:45:55,490 --> 00:45:53,849
Kenneth Arnold sorry his name is

969
00:45:57,620 --> 00:45:55,500
mentioned in virtually every year for

970
00:45:59,599 --> 00:45:57,630
both because of the fact that he is

971
00:46:02,150 --> 00:45:59,609
saying of the one attract attention

972
00:46:05,510 --> 00:46:02,160
anyway we get it we get it yeah

973
00:46:08,810 --> 00:46:05,520
we're getting ready for our are a little

974
00:46:11,630 --> 00:46:08,820
bit longer break day here and when we

975
00:46:15,140 --> 00:46:11,640
come back after the break I have some

976
00:46:18,170 --> 00:46:15,150
very interesting fascinating details

977
00:46:21,230 --> 00:46:18,180
about what happened later in Kenneth

978
00:46:24,380 --> 00:46:21,240
Arnold's a life that pushes the the

979
00:46:26,930 --> 00:46:24,390
subject into a little bit more of a

980
00:46:29,120 --> 00:46:26,940
paranormal nature because he didn't have

981
00:46:33,920 --> 00:46:29,130
several UFO sightings and of course

982
00:46:35,210 --> 00:46:33,930
there is the enigma of the ten or so

983
00:46:37,430 --> 00:46:35,220
deaths that took place on the

984
00:46:39,530 --> 00:46:37,440
anniversary of the site 1924 but we'll

985
00:46:46,240 --> 00:46:39,540
be back and stay tuned and tell your

986
00:46:46,250 --> 00:46:51,009
[Music]

987
00:46:57,970 --> 00:46:56,029
explode the bazaar your e-ticket ride is

988
00:47:01,249 --> 00:46:57,980
the world of the paranoid

989
00:47:05,529 --> 00:47:01,259
strap yourself e'en as we traverse the

990
00:47:08,650 --> 00:47:05,539
universe exploring the unexplained UFO s

991
00:47:11,059 --> 00:47:08,660
ghosts lost world

992
00:47:14,900 --> 00:47:11,069
cryptozoology as well as other

993
00:47:18,710 --> 00:47:14,910
dimensions it's time to take back the

994
00:47:20,900 --> 00:47:18,720
night last night now you are

995
00:47:28,059 --> 00:47:20,910
electrifying hosts of exploring the

996
00:47:34,130 --> 00:47:31,489
and welcome back to the second hour of

997
00:47:39,259 --> 00:47:34,140
exploring the bizarre and tonight we are

998
00:47:40,999 --> 00:47:39,269
talking about the mother the origin not

999
00:47:43,430 --> 00:47:41,009
really I suppose not really the origin

1000
00:47:45,739 --> 00:47:43,440
but you know one of the the first UFO

1001
00:47:48,200 --> 00:47:45,749
sighting to the modern UFO air mother

1002
00:47:52,729 --> 00:47:48,210
the mother of all UFO sightings there

1003
00:47:54,380 --> 00:47:52,739
you go there you go so so Tim what do

1004
00:47:56,870 --> 00:47:54,390
you have to say about this I mean I know

1005
00:47:58,960 --> 00:47:56,880
that you've been you know investigated

1006
00:48:03,890 --> 00:47:58,970
researching UFOs for years and years and

1007
00:48:07,009 --> 00:48:03,900
you know what say you well you know we

1008
00:48:08,630 --> 00:48:07,019
think of a Ken Arnold as having the you

1009
00:48:10,339 --> 00:48:08,640
know the first UFO sighting and of

1010
00:48:13,309 --> 00:48:10,349
course some of the things that happened

1011
00:48:15,829 --> 00:48:13,319
in association with Morrie island but as

1012
00:48:17,539 --> 00:48:15,839
I started to collect you know I would

1013
00:48:19,759 --> 00:48:17,549
get clippings I'd subscribe to a

1014
00:48:22,579 --> 00:48:19,769
clipping service and and I remember one

1015
00:48:26,150 --> 00:48:22,589
day I got I got a clipping from I guess

1016
00:48:28,519 --> 00:48:26,160
it was the Boise one of the Pipers near

1017
00:48:30,430 --> 00:48:28,529
or in Boise and it talked about some of

1018
00:48:33,979 --> 00:48:30,440
the other things that had happened to

1019
00:48:38,839 --> 00:48:33,989
Ken Arnold and I guess he gave one of

1020
00:48:40,609 --> 00:48:38,849
his very rare rare interviews and this

1021
00:48:46,549 --> 00:48:40,619
was at the point I guess in my youthful

1022
00:48:49,880 --> 00:48:46,559
logical career where I began to kind of

1023
00:48:53,150 --> 00:48:49,890
shed my total belief system that UFOs

1024
00:48:57,319 --> 00:48:53,160
had to necessarily be interplanetary in

1025
00:48:59,239 --> 00:48:57,329
scope and nature and you know recently

1026
00:49:01,039 --> 00:48:59,249
we we did a book you and I worked on it

1027
00:49:03,499 --> 00:49:01,049
together along with other contributors

1028
00:49:04,520 --> 00:49:03,509
called the matrix control system of

1029
00:49:06,740 --> 00:49:04,530
philip k dick

1030
00:49:09,620 --> 00:49:06,750
and the paranormal synchronicities of

1031
00:49:13,970 --> 00:49:09,630
tim Beckley that would be me of course

1032
00:49:18,350 --> 00:49:13,980
and there is a entire chapter in the

1033
00:49:21,980 --> 00:49:18,360
book it's called UFOs a journey to the

1034
00:49:24,980 --> 00:49:21,990
afterlife now I think quite a bit has

1035
00:49:27,410 --> 00:49:24,990
been made about the fact that a number

1036
00:49:31,370 --> 00:49:27,420
of UFO researchers probably about 10 or

1037
00:49:34,070 --> 00:49:31,380
12 have passed away on June 24th which

1038
00:49:38,600 --> 00:49:34,080
would be the anniversary of the sighting

1039
00:49:40,730 --> 00:49:38,610
by Kenneth Arnold now some of those that

1040
00:49:45,110 --> 00:49:40,740
passed away on that date included Jackie

1041
00:49:47,930 --> 00:49:45,120
Gleason who was a a collector of UFO

1042
00:49:50,570 --> 00:49:47,940
books and magazines in fact he was a

1043
00:49:54,680 --> 00:49:50,580
guest several times on the Long John

1044
00:49:56,840 --> 00:49:54,690
Neville Party line and he believed very

1045
00:50:01,400 --> 00:49:56,850
strongly in UFOs and that they were

1046
00:50:03,710 --> 00:50:01,410
intelligent controlled devices of some

1047
00:50:07,850 --> 00:50:03,720
sort probably from another planet

1048
00:50:10,130 --> 00:50:07,860
he was very Pro physical law sorcerer

1049
00:50:11,900 --> 00:50:10,140
and of course there were stories that

1050
00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:11,910
were passed around years later that he

1051
00:50:19,280 --> 00:50:14,010
and Richard that Richard Nixon took him

1052
00:50:22,670 --> 00:50:19,290
to an air Air Base in Florida and showed

1053
00:50:25,940 --> 00:50:22,680
Jackie this freezer and they looked

1054
00:50:29,600 --> 00:50:25,950
inside and there was a body of one of

1055
00:50:32,690 --> 00:50:29,610
these alien beings the strange story

1056
00:50:34,760 --> 00:50:32,700
hard to approve but anyway a Jackie

1057
00:50:37,250 --> 00:50:34,770
Gleason was a big proponent of the UFO

1058
00:50:39,260 --> 00:50:37,260
phenomena in fact when I was growing up

1059
00:50:42,440 --> 00:50:39,270
the first UFO book that I did was called

1060
00:50:44,500 --> 00:50:42,450
UFOs around the world and I got a check

1061
00:50:46,940 --> 00:50:44,510
from Jackie Gleason signed by him

1062
00:50:49,760 --> 00:50:46,950
ordering a copy of the book and I was

1063
00:50:52,310 --> 00:50:49,770
very impressed in fact today his UFO in

1064
00:50:54,130 --> 00:50:52,320
a cult library which is considered one

1065
00:50:57,820 --> 00:50:54,140
of the largest in this country here

1066
00:51:01,730 --> 00:50:57,830
resides in the University of Miami

1067
00:51:04,010 --> 00:51:01,740
anyway on June 24th as I say 10 or 12

1068
00:51:06,620 --> 00:51:04,020
researchers have passed away over the

1069
00:51:09,200 --> 00:51:06,630
years that included Jackie Gleason Frank

1070
00:51:11,420 --> 00:51:09,210
Scully who wrote probably one of the

1071
00:51:15,080 --> 00:51:11,430
first the popular books called behind

1072
00:51:18,420 --> 00:51:15,090
the flying saucers Frank Edwards passed

1073
00:51:20,519 --> 00:51:18,430
away I think the year was 1967

1074
00:51:22,859 --> 00:51:20,529
and of course he wrote the book flying

1075
00:51:26,880 --> 00:51:22,869
saucers serious business and was

1076
00:51:28,519 --> 00:51:26,890
probably the first broadcaster who on a

1077
00:51:31,500 --> 00:51:28,529
regular basis

1078
00:51:34,140 --> 00:51:31,510
discussed UFO sightings that were coming

1079
00:51:36,599 --> 00:51:34,150
to his attention in fact there is some

1080
00:51:38,339 --> 00:51:36,609
belief that he was actually thrown off

1081
00:51:42,660 --> 00:51:38,349
the air or he lost his sponsorship

1082
00:51:44,730 --> 00:51:42,670
because he refused to stop discussing

1083
00:51:49,789 --> 00:51:44,740
the flying saucer sightings that were

1084
00:51:53,819 --> 00:51:49,799
taking place in the I guess mid and late

1085
00:51:56,549 --> 00:51:53,829
1950s then there was actually a frank

1086
00:52:01,950 --> 00:51:56,559
edwardses publisher Lyle Stuart he also

1087
00:52:05,400 --> 00:52:01,960
passed away on June 24th there was a

1088
00:52:09,240 --> 00:52:05,410
congressman Mary obayashi who was one of

1089
00:52:11,970 --> 00:52:09,250
the few politicians who was trying to

1090
00:52:13,380 --> 00:52:11,980
get some disclosure you know happening

1091
00:52:18,329 --> 00:52:13,390
on the subject this would have been back

1092
00:52:20,120 --> 00:52:18,339
in the 1970s unfortunately he got

1093
00:52:22,380 --> 00:52:20,130
dismissed from office for some

1094
00:52:25,380 --> 00:52:22,390
hanky-panky but that's what politicians

1095
00:52:27,329 --> 00:52:25,390
do I guess a lot of them will ela who

1096
00:52:31,049 --> 00:52:27,339
was a german-american science writer and

1097
00:52:34,950 --> 00:52:31,059
space advocate passed away on June 24th

1098
00:52:36,620 --> 00:52:34,960
and any other number of individuals so

1099
00:52:39,269 --> 00:52:36,630
there is something weird

1100
00:52:44,940 --> 00:52:39,279
synchronicity wise I call it the June

1101
00:52:47,940 --> 00:52:44,950
24th enigma now interestingly enough in

1102
00:52:50,549 --> 00:52:47,950
a interview that the Kenneth Arnold did

1103
00:52:53,460 --> 00:52:50,559
later on in life they asked him if he

1104
00:52:55,920 --> 00:52:53,470
where he believed that UFOs originated

1105
00:53:00,000 --> 00:52:55,930
from or what they were and during the

1106
00:53:03,630 --> 00:53:00,010
this interview he stated rather candidly

1107
00:53:07,200 --> 00:53:03,640
that he thought that UFOs were either

1108
00:53:11,339 --> 00:53:07,210
some sort of living beings or that they

1109
00:53:15,720 --> 00:53:11,349
were some sort of device that took Souls

1110
00:53:18,260 --> 00:53:15,730
over from this world to the afterlife

1111
00:53:21,450 --> 00:53:18,270
now I don't think that very many people

1112
00:53:25,349 --> 00:53:21,460
realize that but certainly if he had

1113
00:53:28,049 --> 00:53:25,359
that belief and it would seem that these

1114
00:53:30,000 --> 00:53:28,059
paths the way people passed away on June

1115
00:53:31,920 --> 00:53:30,010
24th there seems to be some

1116
00:53:34,530 --> 00:53:31,930
synchronicity there I I know

1117
00:53:37,500 --> 00:53:34,540
I sweated a little bit less when the the

1118
00:53:40,830 --> 00:53:37,510
clock struck midnight on June 25th I

1119
00:53:44,550 --> 00:53:40,840
made it I made it an another I made it

1120
00:53:46,230 --> 00:53:44,560
another year but there is something and

1121
00:53:47,870 --> 00:53:46,240
I think as you know we'll agree to this

1122
00:53:51,000 --> 00:53:47,880
something

1123
00:53:53,580 --> 00:53:51,010
synchronicity plays a weird role in the

1124
00:53:55,500 --> 00:53:53,590
UFO phenomena and in the paranormal in

1125
00:53:57,150 --> 00:53:55,510
general in fact it just turns out

1126
00:53:59,670 --> 00:53:57,160
recently that we have kind of a minor

1127
00:54:03,240 --> 00:53:59,680
synchronicity it turns out that Chanel

1128
00:54:05,910 --> 00:54:03,250
and I have a mutual friend there is a

1129
00:54:07,380 --> 00:54:05,920
young lady who I knew when she was

1130
00:54:11,240 --> 00:54:07,390
working here in New York by the name is

1131
00:54:13,620 --> 00:54:11,250
star and and and it turns out that the

1132
00:54:17,430 --> 00:54:13,630
star in Chanel know each other now I

1133
00:54:20,190 --> 00:54:17,440
don't know how many people live in Boise

1134
00:54:22,110 --> 00:54:20,200
Idaho but it's kind of like my

1135
00:54:24,510 --> 00:54:22,120
synchronicity with alan vaughn in the

1136
00:54:27,000 --> 00:54:24,520
city of san francisco i run into him

1137
00:54:29,820 --> 00:54:27,010
without it without him even knowing them

1138
00:54:32,850 --> 00:54:29,830
and i'm in town or anything but can it

1139
00:54:35,910 --> 00:54:32,860
can arnold i also have here a list that

1140
00:54:38,490 --> 00:54:35,920
was applied to me by ken thomas who of

1141
00:54:41,250 --> 00:54:38,500
course was the editor and publisher of

1142
00:54:44,220 --> 00:54:41,260
the steam shovel press and he lists the

1143
00:54:46,190 --> 00:54:44,230
list a a number of items that refer to

1144
00:54:51,570 --> 00:54:46,200
Kenneth Arnold some of the things that

1145
00:54:53,570 --> 00:54:51,580
happened to to him later on in life she

1146
00:54:58,320 --> 00:54:53,580
said besides his initial sighting in

1147
00:55:00,630 --> 00:54:58,330
1947 he had several other sightings that

1148
00:55:04,320 --> 00:55:00,640
took place and on at least one perhaps

1149
00:55:06,900 --> 00:55:04,330
two occasions he actually filmed a UFO

1150
00:55:10,500 --> 00:55:06,910
on another occasion he had a sighting of

1151
00:55:14,250 --> 00:55:10,510
25 small crafts another UFO sighting in

1152
00:55:17,850 --> 00:55:14,260
1952 of two objects one solid the other

1153
00:55:20,150 --> 00:55:17,860
jellyfish-like arnold stated that he had

1154
00:55:22,950 --> 00:55:20,160
telepathic communication with some of

1155
00:55:24,810 --> 00:55:22,960
during some of these sightings there

1156
00:55:27,240 --> 00:55:24,820
were floating orbs that were seen around

1157
00:55:30,390 --> 00:55:27,250
the house he was fascinated himself with

1158
00:55:32,310 --> 00:55:30,400
the synchronicities and as we pointed

1159
00:55:36,900 --> 00:55:32,320
out he was convinced that ufos were

1160
00:55:39,150 --> 00:55:36,910
somehow connected to the to the dead now

1161
00:55:41,250 --> 00:55:39,160
shanell did your grandfather ever

1162
00:55:44,400 --> 00:55:41,260
mention any of these other currencies to

1163
00:55:45,210 --> 00:55:44,410
you it's what my mother has taught me

1164
00:55:47,880 --> 00:55:45,220
that

1165
00:55:52,490 --> 00:55:47,890
um but they definitely they definitely

1166
00:55:54,870 --> 00:55:52,500
have something to do with our I guess

1167
00:55:57,660 --> 00:55:54,880
I'm trying to give the right word when

1168
00:56:00,750 --> 00:55:57,670
we pass to the afterlife um you know

1169
00:56:02,339 --> 00:56:00,760
these entities could be like angels or

1170
00:56:05,010 --> 00:56:02,349
you know they could be they could be

1171
00:56:06,540 --> 00:56:05,020
taking us different dimensions and just

1172
00:56:08,580 --> 00:56:06,550
growing up with my mother you know this

1173
00:56:10,770 --> 00:56:08,590
is what she would tell me and this is

1174
00:56:14,670 --> 00:56:10,780
what she was told by my grandfather and

1175
00:56:16,410 --> 00:56:14,680
her mother and you know my grandfather

1176
00:56:18,599 --> 00:56:16,420
every time he had an experience with

1177
00:56:23,040 --> 00:56:18,609
flying saucers it was a spiritual

1178
00:56:25,560 --> 00:56:23,050
experience to him and he felt like there

1179
00:56:27,480 --> 00:56:25,570
was a bigger picture because it happened

1180
00:56:31,970 --> 00:56:27,490
more than once first he had his initial

1181
00:56:34,560 --> 00:56:31,980
sighting and you know he he was just so

1182
00:56:37,230 --> 00:56:34,570
overwhelmed with what he experienced and

1183
00:56:41,460 --> 00:56:37,240
had more sightings he believed there

1184
00:56:43,320 --> 00:56:41,470
from another dimension hmm well I think

1185
00:56:46,770 --> 00:56:43,330
that we've seen over the years would you

1186
00:56:49,980 --> 00:56:46,780
agree Tim that there has been a kind of

1187
00:56:54,000 --> 00:56:49,990
an alteration and belief systems in the

1188
00:56:55,589 --> 00:56:54,010
UFO field you know where these objects

1189
00:56:58,859 --> 00:56:55,599
were considered to be of

1190
00:57:00,540 --> 00:56:58,869
extraterrestrial origin there are a lot

1191
00:57:02,849 --> 00:57:00,550
of researchers now including the late

1192
00:57:04,980 --> 00:57:02,859
dr. J Allen Hynek and we're going to

1193
00:57:07,560 --> 00:57:04,990
have the author of a book that was

1194
00:57:09,599 --> 00:57:07,570
written about him recently on and I have

1195
00:57:13,260 --> 00:57:09,609
some kind of a confidential information

1196
00:57:17,400 --> 00:57:13,270
that dr. Hynek revealed to me at one of

1197
00:57:19,620 --> 00:57:17,410
during one of his last interviews so you

1198
00:57:22,320 --> 00:57:19,630
know a Bruce did you ever have the

1199
00:57:24,930 --> 00:57:22,330
opportunity to speak with the Ken ro not

1200
00:57:29,070 --> 00:57:24,940
to speak without no I I heard him talk

1201
00:57:33,150 --> 00:57:29,080
in 1977 at the Fate symposium in Chicago

1202
00:57:35,810 --> 00:57:33,160
how was the closer I got uh and and did

1203
00:57:38,359 --> 00:57:35,820
he did he talk about any of this strange

1204
00:57:42,420 --> 00:57:38,369
synchronicities or any of this a

1205
00:57:43,950 --> 00:57:42,430
paranormal aspect of this well I I don't

1206
00:57:47,640 --> 00:57:43,960
remember everything that he talked about

1207
00:57:51,990 --> 00:57:47,650
I paid attention to his recitation of

1208
00:57:55,070 --> 00:57:52,000
the first sighting events which he had

1209
00:57:56,960 --> 00:57:55,080
talked about many times in in my book I

1210
00:57:59,870 --> 00:57:56,970
present for

1211
00:58:02,059 --> 00:57:59,880
different accountings that he gave the

1212
00:58:05,030 --> 00:58:02,069
unit the accounting is a foot is a

1213
00:58:08,569 --> 00:58:05,040
follow report of the words of the Air

1214
00:58:11,809 --> 00:58:08,579
Force which has written the four weeks

1215
00:58:14,150 --> 00:58:11,819
until after the event the account that

1216
00:58:18,430 --> 00:58:14,160
comes in the book here coming out of

1217
00:58:21,770 --> 00:58:18,440
saucers is so far the only UFO book to

1218
00:58:23,990 --> 00:58:21,780
basically concentrate on his sighting so

1219
00:58:30,589 --> 00:58:24,000
that was the second one then there was

1220
00:58:33,020 --> 00:58:30,599
also his first radio interview on us on

1221
00:58:35,420 --> 00:58:33,030
the 26th of June two days after the

1222
00:58:38,809 --> 00:58:35,430
sighting this is a one of the appendices

1223
00:58:42,380 --> 00:58:38,819
in the book and another appendix is his

1224
00:58:46,250 --> 00:58:42,390
talk at his discussion of the first

1225
00:58:50,990 --> 00:58:46,260
sighting as we presented at the 1977 for

1226
00:58:54,530 --> 00:58:51,000
face s so there's four four recitations

1227
00:58:57,829 --> 00:58:54,540
by Arnold and the skeptics would argue

1228
00:59:00,260 --> 00:58:57,839
well you'd expect that he was the

1229
00:59:01,730 --> 00:59:00,270
e-library as time went on this you get

1230
00:59:05,000 --> 00:59:01,740
more and more grandiose or something

1231
00:59:07,130 --> 00:59:05,010
like that this is a big hoax instead

1232
00:59:10,280 --> 00:59:07,140
offer basically all same same

1233
00:59:12,920 --> 00:59:10,290
information submitted different wording

1234
00:59:16,550 --> 00:59:12,930
with the same information conveyed with

1235
00:59:19,400 --> 00:59:16,560
no big expansions and stuff Afghanistan

1236
00:59:25,220 --> 00:59:19,410
in my book is not a biography of Kenneth

1237
00:59:28,210 --> 00:59:25,230
Arnold per se I essentially ends at the

1238
00:59:31,040 --> 00:59:28,220
end of his sighting and this is

1239
00:59:35,420 --> 00:59:31,050
historical analysis of what he said and

1240
00:59:38,620 --> 00:59:35,430
the implications for the rest of us my

1241
00:59:42,020 --> 00:59:38,630
argument is overall philosophical

1242
00:59:44,920 --> 00:59:42,030
argument about his sighting is that he

1243
00:59:47,720 --> 00:59:44,930
the fact that he saw these things and

1244
00:59:50,329 --> 00:59:47,730
reported them was essentially a message

1245
00:59:53,780 --> 00:59:50,339
to humanity say the message being here

1246
00:59:58,040 --> 00:59:53,790
you are not alone somebody off of here

1247
01:00:01,520 --> 00:59:58,050
and and I begin the book with that and I

1248
01:00:06,800 --> 01:00:01,530
end the book by saying I have been asked

1249
01:00:09,109 --> 01:00:06,810
why did I write this book I decided to

1250
01:00:11,239 --> 01:00:09,119
try to answer that question

1251
01:00:15,099 --> 01:00:11,249
back in the summers when I decided to

1252
01:00:18,620 --> 01:00:15,109
write a book about Arnold signing and

1253
01:00:20,299 --> 01:00:18,630
people have been saying here we've been

1254
01:00:22,159 --> 01:00:20,309
working at this stuff for years we don't

1255
01:00:24,999 --> 01:00:22,169
really have any good salt answers yet so

1256
01:00:27,140 --> 01:00:25,009
I asked myself what could what

1257
01:00:30,529 --> 01:00:27,150
constitutes a good solid answers for

1258
01:00:33,079 --> 01:00:30,539
this condom of of UFOs or flying saucers

1259
01:00:35,959 --> 01:00:33,089
and how do we find out what it is and I

1260
01:00:37,909 --> 01:00:35,969
said when I go back to the beginning and

1261
01:00:40,489 --> 01:00:37,919
see what we missed to begin with I

1262
01:00:42,589 --> 01:00:40,499
thought what we missed was the sightings

1263
01:00:44,779 --> 01:00:42,599
themselves the the fact that there was

1264
01:00:46,579 --> 01:00:44,789
something there and we spent a lot of

1265
01:00:49,539 --> 01:00:46,589
time trying to figure out explanations

1266
01:00:53,299 --> 01:00:49,549
for them and lose sight of the

1267
01:00:55,549 --> 01:00:53,309
information being provided it's hard

1268
01:00:57,829 --> 01:00:55,559
enough to convince people that flying

1269
01:01:00,319 --> 01:00:57,839
saucers are real or UFOs are real or

1270
01:01:05,259 --> 01:01:00,329
we're going to call iCarly implying

1271
01:01:07,939 --> 01:01:05,269
alien flying craft we have literally

1272
01:01:10,009 --> 01:01:07,949
tens of hundreds of thousands of sayings

1273
01:01:14,149 --> 01:01:10,019
that I myself have looked at a number of

1274
01:01:17,439 --> 01:01:14,159
sightings over the six years if I spent

1275
01:01:20,749 --> 01:01:17,449
some time doing these studies and

1276
01:01:23,779 --> 01:01:20,759
they're not enough to convince anybody I

1277
01:01:25,429 --> 01:01:23,789
guess ascertain if you're severe

1278
01:01:27,859 --> 01:01:25,439
skeptics are not going to be convinced

1279
01:01:29,509 --> 01:01:27,869
by that but they're less than I was

1280
01:01:31,939 --> 01:01:29,519
going over the Arnold's sighting I said

1281
01:01:34,579 --> 01:01:31,949
to myself where come right down to it

1282
01:01:37,069 --> 01:01:34,589
you only need one sighting to prove this

1283
01:01:38,689 --> 01:01:37,079
that this phenomenon is real that

1284
01:01:40,640 --> 01:01:38,699
happens to be karen'll sighting and

1285
01:01:42,890 --> 01:01:40,650
you're talking about synchronicities

1286
01:01:44,870 --> 01:01:42,900
well as a major synchronicity going on

1287
01:01:46,640 --> 01:01:44,880
in his sighting he was the right person

1288
01:01:48,559 --> 01:01:46,650
the right man to be at the right place

1289
01:01:51,919 --> 01:01:48,569
at the right time and with the right

1290
01:01:55,549 --> 01:01:51,929
attitude which is of prime importance

1291
01:01:58,370 --> 01:01:55,559
the attitude of well I see something can

1292
01:01:59,870 --> 01:01:58,380
I do something about it can I make a big

1293
01:02:02,589 --> 01:01:59,880
question was can I measure it in some

1294
01:02:04,370 --> 01:02:02,599
way which he did he did a lot of test

1295
01:02:07,549 --> 01:02:04,380
experiments during that three minutes

1296
01:02:09,859 --> 01:02:07,559
that's why this is a book is called

1297
01:02:14,329 --> 01:02:09,869
three minutes in June because of the

1298
01:02:16,609 --> 01:02:14,339
time of the time it took for deciding to

1299
01:02:18,859 --> 01:02:16,619
occur had he been on the ground

1300
01:02:21,079 --> 01:02:18,869
and these things flown over there's no

1301
01:02:22,370 --> 01:02:21,089
way he could have calculated this out at

1302
01:02:24,470 --> 01:02:22,380
the speed he

1303
01:02:27,220 --> 01:02:24,480
had to have a long-distance or shawl

1304
01:02:30,320 --> 01:02:27,230
over reasonably long time to be able to

1305
01:02:32,300 --> 01:02:30,330
be accurate and measuring the speed of

1306
01:02:34,940 --> 01:02:32,310
these things he could only do that from

1307
01:02:39,290 --> 01:02:34,950
the air so he had to be up in the air

1308
01:02:41,540 --> 01:02:39,300
course he had to be at a location close

1309
01:02:43,790 --> 01:02:41,550
to where they were appearing from and

1310
01:02:45,590 --> 01:02:43,800
they passed right and fatherless gave

1311
01:02:47,690 --> 01:02:45,600
them a good view of these objects as

1312
01:02:50,180 --> 01:02:47,700
they traveled he thought there may be 20

1313
01:02:51,530 --> 01:02:50,190
to 25 miles away at the closest and then

1314
01:02:54,380 --> 01:02:51,540
of course he sees him go past Mount

1315
01:02:58,730 --> 01:02:54,390
Rainier around Adams and is able to

1316
01:03:00,590 --> 01:02:58,740
calculate the speed all this stuff tends

1317
01:03:02,600 --> 01:03:00,600
to lend to the credibility of the report

1318
01:03:07,640 --> 01:03:02,610
and the fact that it didn't change over

1319
01:03:11,510 --> 01:03:07,650
a period of 30 years further further was

1320
01:03:13,160 --> 01:03:11,520
the credibility so my my response is the

1321
01:03:15,500 --> 01:03:13,170
book was written because we don't want

1322
01:03:17,510 --> 01:03:15,510
to find out what we we had missed wholly

1323
01:03:20,870 --> 01:03:17,520
missed with spending time on studying

1324
01:03:24,380 --> 01:03:20,880
the phenomenon itself rather than trying

1325
01:03:27,230 --> 01:03:24,390
to just explain it away now my FBI CIA

1326
01:03:30,140 --> 01:03:27,240
UFO book shows how the government try to

1327
01:03:32,360 --> 01:03:30,150
explain all sorts of stuff away and it's

1328
01:03:35,060 --> 01:03:32,370
really good for a sort of a background

1329
01:03:38,360 --> 01:03:35,070
than the first four or five six years of

1330
01:03:39,620 --> 01:03:38,370
events for somebody who's never read a

1331
01:03:40,850 --> 01:03:39,630
book about the something doesn't know

1332
01:03:43,550 --> 01:03:40,860
anything about the history of the

1333
01:03:45,890 --> 01:03:43,560
subject if you saw if you read my book

1334
01:03:47,510 --> 01:03:45,900
on Arnold you don't really learn about

1335
01:03:50,870 --> 01:03:47,520
what the first what happened in the

1336
01:03:53,480 --> 01:03:50,880
first few days you might say you need

1337
01:03:55,670 --> 01:03:53,490
some other books ago go beyond that what

1338
01:04:00,490 --> 01:03:55,680
did the Air Force respond the Air Force

1339
01:04:03,950 --> 01:04:00,500
investigate why did the Air Force

1340
01:04:06,320 --> 01:04:03,960
explain a while garbage explanations to

1341
01:04:09,260 --> 01:04:06,330
be published as as the explanations and

1342
01:04:13,400 --> 01:04:09,270
by the way Arnold's sighting is not the

1343
01:04:16,520 --> 01:04:13,410
first unexplained sighting it's not a

1344
01:04:16,900 --> 01:04:16,530
member of the 701 that you mentioned

1345
01:04:20,300 --> 01:04:16,910
earlier

1346
01:04:23,540 --> 01:04:20,310
Arnold's saying the first thing was Fred

1347
01:04:25,190 --> 01:04:23,550
Johnson a prospector who was a Makarov

1348
01:04:26,570 --> 01:04:25,200
on the same day as kind of Ferelden

1349
01:04:29,810 --> 01:04:26,580
literally afternoon he saw these things

1350
01:04:32,570 --> 01:04:29,820
fly over he looked at him at a scope he

1351
01:04:35,060 --> 01:04:32,580
saw his compass wobbled as they were

1352
01:04:36,900 --> 01:04:35,070
going going past and it became stable

1353
01:04:39,630 --> 01:04:36,910
after they Donnell

1354
01:04:41,970 --> 01:04:39,640
kind of a kind of town setting they said

1355
01:04:44,130 --> 01:04:41,980
was a mirage but Fred Johnson said he

1356
01:04:46,470 --> 01:04:44,140
couldn't explain Fred Johnson sighting

1357
01:04:50,820 --> 01:04:46,480
is the first unexplained sighting in the

1358
01:04:53,520 --> 01:04:50,830
fuzzy blue look file of 13,000 safe so

1359
01:04:56,040 --> 01:04:53,530
now how does Kenneth Arnold's sighting

1360
01:04:59,730 --> 01:04:56,050
to compare with other reports that

1361
01:05:02,700 --> 01:04:59,740
you've investigated over the years well

1362
01:05:04,170 --> 01:05:02,710
of course is a one person sighting I had

1363
01:05:07,170 --> 01:05:04,180
tend to believe that this one person was

1364
01:05:11,220 --> 01:05:07,180
a at the top of his capability of

1365
01:05:14,840 --> 01:05:11,230
recording memorizing and recording facts

1366
01:05:18,080 --> 01:05:14,850
of these objects that he saw I don't and

1367
01:05:20,220 --> 01:05:18,090
since there's nobody else around to

1368
01:05:22,560 --> 01:05:20,230
confuse the issue or dispute what he

1369
01:05:24,960 --> 01:05:22,570
says it's reasonable reasonable wife

1370
01:05:25,260 --> 01:05:24,970
believed it was assuming he's telling

1371
01:05:27,060 --> 01:05:25,270
the truth

1372
01:05:28,800 --> 01:05:27,070
a lot of the other settings that I've

1373
01:05:36,420 --> 01:05:28,810
analyzed are multiple retina sightings

1374
01:05:40,349 --> 01:05:36,430
and film video photographs I even have

1375
01:05:44,390 --> 01:05:40,359
one magnetic field sighting that I

1376
01:05:47,700 --> 01:05:44,400
polish on and I FBI see a whole book

1377
01:05:49,980 --> 01:05:47,710
well I think one of the things that has

1378
01:05:52,080 --> 01:05:49,990
always fascinated me especially with the

1379
01:05:55,500 --> 01:05:52,090
Arnold sightings is you know his

1380
01:05:58,740 --> 01:05:55,510
description of how these crafts were

1381
01:06:03,140 --> 01:05:58,750
were flying and you know I mean there

1382
01:06:06,540 --> 01:06:03,150
has been so many other reports that

1383
01:06:10,800 --> 01:06:06,550
basically described the same aerial

1384
01:06:13,830 --> 01:06:10,810
dynamic principles of flight well I have

1385
01:06:17,450 --> 01:06:13,840
seen reports exact 11 the so-called

1386
01:06:19,859 --> 01:06:17,460
falling leaf motion of objects with

1387
01:06:22,050 --> 01:06:19,869
glide from side to side left right left

1388
01:06:24,900 --> 01:06:22,060
right as they fall down rise like a leaf

1389
01:06:27,900 --> 01:06:24,910
falling from a tree that's been reported

1390
01:06:29,550 --> 01:06:27,910
a number times mm-hmm well I mean

1391
01:06:31,700 --> 01:06:29,560
there's been there's been other pilots

1392
01:06:34,800 --> 01:06:31,710
who have who have seen these these

1393
01:06:37,230 --> 01:06:34,810
crafts and describe you know how they

1394
01:06:41,460 --> 01:06:37,240
seem to you know like Zelly a wobble

1395
01:06:43,140 --> 01:06:41,470
side side and skip across you know like

1396
01:06:46,550 --> 01:06:43,150
that like a rocks giving across the

1397
01:06:48,960 --> 01:06:46,560
surface of water and

1398
01:06:51,570 --> 01:06:48,970
supposedly non-physical motions like my

1399
01:06:54,150 --> 01:06:51,580
grandmother talked about seeing two

1400
01:06:57,450 --> 01:06:54,160
objects side-by-side round bright dots

1401
01:06:59,820 --> 01:06:57,460
in a clear blue sky traveling westward

1402
01:07:02,280 --> 01:06:59,830
making a right angle turn and traveling

1403
01:07:04,500 --> 01:07:02,290
northward grandma was not an aerodynamic

1404
01:07:09,030 --> 01:07:04,510
aerodynamic physicist or whatever but

1405
01:07:16,580 --> 01:07:12,510
well now the the shape of the crafts

1406
01:07:19,410 --> 01:07:16,590
that Arnold siding saw was there a photo

1407
01:07:22,500 --> 01:07:19,420
taking in I think it was Arizona that

1408
01:07:26,550 --> 01:07:22,510
showed a similar object a week or two

1409
01:07:29,850 --> 01:07:26,560
later almost look like a like a hole a

1410
01:07:32,970 --> 01:07:29,860
shoe heel right here time out the roads

1411
01:07:36,390 --> 01:07:32,980
photo from Phoenix yes Rose Toto was

1412
01:07:39,000 --> 01:07:36,400
believed to be unexplainable except it

1413
01:07:42,090 --> 01:07:39,010
is an unexplained photograph of course

1414
01:07:44,370 --> 01:07:42,100
the skeptics is try to explain it one

1415
01:07:46,010 --> 01:07:44,380
way or another basically they the only

1416
01:07:48,180 --> 01:07:46,020
they're only out is it must be a hoax

1417
01:07:50,250 --> 01:07:48,190
but yes you're right it looks like it

1418
01:07:52,190 --> 01:07:50,260
didn't look like it looks like a

1419
01:07:56,370 --> 01:07:52,200
semicircle in the front end and a

1420
01:07:59,240 --> 01:07:56,380
concave depression in the back end

1421
01:08:03,420 --> 01:07:59,250
unlike the Arnold objects that are

1422
01:08:06,480 --> 01:08:03,430
semicircular in the front half and stuck

1423
01:08:10,770 --> 01:08:06,490
out in the rear end like a triangle

1424
01:08:12,570 --> 01:08:10,780
almost pointed Fred Johnson a prospector

1425
01:08:14,460 --> 01:08:12,580
who saw these things this is the end of

1426
01:08:16,769 --> 01:08:14,470
Arnold sighting as they were going to

1427
01:08:19,289 --> 01:08:16,779
pass on Arabs he said they had a big a

1428
01:08:21,539 --> 01:08:19,299
big thing on the back end like a hand of

1429
01:08:25,920 --> 01:08:21,549
a big magnet swimming back and singing

1430
01:08:29,039 --> 01:08:25,930
back and forth hmm interesting well II D

1431
01:08:32,099 --> 01:08:29,049
I mean you see you know like some of the

1432
01:08:34,530 --> 01:08:32,109
modern-day a stealth aircraft have

1433
01:08:38,910 --> 01:08:34,540
almost the same kind of shapes nowadays

1434
01:08:41,670 --> 01:08:38,920
oh they're more triangular in the front

1435
01:08:43,260 --> 01:08:41,680
of the leading front-end I don't know of

1436
01:08:47,269 --> 01:08:43,270
anything the semicircular at the front

1437
01:08:50,700 --> 01:08:47,279
and convex pointing outwards at the back

1438
01:08:52,740 --> 01:08:50,710
of course there was no he couldn't see

1439
01:08:55,320 --> 01:08:52,750
any engines on typical airplane the

1440
01:08:57,289 --> 01:08:55,330
engines hang down below the wings there

1441
01:08:59,010 --> 01:08:57,299
were no wings there were no engines

1442
01:09:00,249 --> 01:08:59,020
there's nothing that looked familiar

1443
01:09:03,220 --> 01:09:00,259
sorry good

1444
01:09:04,690 --> 01:09:03,230
and by the way the flashes of light

1445
01:09:06,070 --> 01:09:04,700
the initial class of light the

1446
01:09:08,229 --> 01:09:06,080
pregnancy's attention he said with a

1447
01:09:10,990 --> 01:09:08,239
increase in brightness essentially of

1448
01:09:13,840 --> 01:09:11,000
the body of his aircraft I have to ask

1449
01:09:16,390 --> 01:09:13,850
yourself the sun is shining there was a

1450
01:09:18,309 --> 01:09:16,400
clear day under mile visibility the Sun

1451
01:09:21,070 --> 01:09:18,319
was shining down as airplane it was

1452
01:09:25,539 --> 01:09:21,080
already very bright how bright a flash

1453
01:09:27,190 --> 01:09:25,549
I'll break the light be his aircraft for

1454
01:09:28,769 --> 01:09:27,200
him to notice if there's been an

1455
01:09:31,749 --> 01:09:28,779
increase in brilliance of an aircraft

1456
01:09:33,610 --> 01:09:31,759
dr. Maccabee libyan we have to go to our

1457
01:09:45,460 --> 01:09:33,620
bottom of the hour break so we will be

1458
01:09:49,210 --> 01:09:45,470
right back for more exploring design now

1459
01:09:51,370 --> 01:09:49,220
back to exploring the bazaar with two of

1460
01:09:54,850 --> 01:09:51,380
the most electrifying researchers in the

1461
01:09:59,040 --> 01:09:54,860
perineal your hostess Timothy Beck link

1462
01:10:05,710 --> 01:10:02,620
all right welcome back hello and welcome

1463
01:10:09,400 --> 01:10:05,720
back to a final half-hour of exploring

1464
01:10:11,290 --> 01:10:09,410
the bazaar and we're talking tonight

1465
01:10:12,580 --> 01:10:11,300
about the Kenneth Arnold sightings and

1466
01:10:15,160 --> 01:10:12,590
Tim I know you want to talk about

1467
01:10:19,420 --> 01:10:15,170
night-vision goggles a lot of people

1468
01:10:21,729 --> 01:10:19,430
have taken them out cameras you know

1469
01:10:24,640 --> 01:10:21,739
that I think what is it's the the

1470
01:10:27,190 --> 01:10:24,650
infrared the spectrum that they're

1471
01:10:30,130 --> 01:10:27,200
they're looking at with these I'm not

1472
01:10:33,610 --> 01:10:30,140
positive well now yes shanell now you

1473
01:10:36,220 --> 01:10:33,620
mentioned during a break here that you

1474
01:10:40,510 --> 01:10:36,230
were interested in perhaps visiting the

1475
01:10:42,640 --> 01:10:40,520
Gillian ranch in Washington now they've

1476
01:10:45,400 --> 01:10:42,650
taken some photo of videos I guess

1477
01:10:48,640 --> 01:10:45,410
videos through night-vision scope there

1478
01:10:50,140 --> 01:10:48,650
and and I mean from what we can see to

1479
01:10:52,229 --> 01:10:50,150
me it looks rather impressive of course

1480
01:10:55,990 --> 01:10:52,239
I don't know that much about

1481
01:10:58,150 --> 01:10:56,000
night-vision scopes or anything I know I

1482
01:11:00,700 --> 01:10:58,160
kind of hesitate to watch anything and

1483
01:11:02,170 --> 01:11:00,710
on TV like Ghost Hunters that shoots the

1484
01:11:05,020 --> 01:11:02,180
whole thing in night vision because it

1485
01:11:07,960 --> 01:11:05,030
just irritates my eyesight but if you

1486
01:11:11,650 --> 01:11:07,970
can pick up a UFO or something wandering

1487
01:11:14,200 --> 01:11:11,660
through space and in some of these the

1488
01:11:17,590 --> 01:11:14,210
cases I mean they claim that to my

1489
01:11:19,479 --> 01:11:17,600
be some conflict going on between aerial

1490
01:11:22,020 --> 01:11:19,489
devices way up there in the atmosphere

1491
01:11:24,940 --> 01:11:22,030
have you seen any of these videos a

1492
01:11:27,670 --> 01:11:24,950
Chanel or have you seen anything - a

1493
01:11:28,380 --> 01:11:27,680
night-vision scope that you can't

1494
01:11:31,930 --> 01:11:28,390
explain

1495
01:11:33,940 --> 01:11:31,940
no I mean I I would love to go there and

1496
01:11:36,850 --> 01:11:33,950
experience it because I hear that like a

1497
01:11:39,520 --> 01:11:36,860
reporter trying to debunk that Gilliland

1498
01:11:42,790 --> 01:11:39,530
ranch and she saw him through the night

1499
01:11:45,700 --> 01:11:42,800
vision and and my husband I just want to

1500
01:11:48,700 --> 01:11:45,710
go so bad but he's very exclusive to

1501
01:11:50,890 --> 01:11:48,710
whom he lets into the Gillihan ranch so

1502
01:11:54,310 --> 01:11:50,900
well I can't believe that he wouldn't

1503
01:11:56,380 --> 01:11:54,320
let you in I know I know the word the

1504
01:12:00,790 --> 01:11:56,390
word needs to get out that we we want to

1505
01:12:02,650 --> 01:12:00,800
go I just sent him an email I mean he

1506
01:12:05,110 --> 01:12:02,660
seems like the type of fellow who likes

1507
01:12:07,840 --> 01:12:05,120
to get his name out there I mean that

1508
01:12:11,140 --> 01:12:07,850
certainly would be impressive for him to

1509
01:12:13,690 --> 01:12:11,150
have a Ken Arnold's a granddaughter that

1510
01:12:16,030 --> 01:12:13,700
come by in and say that she saw or maybe

1511
01:12:19,030 --> 01:12:16,040
didn't see something strange in the sky

1512
01:12:21,580 --> 01:12:19,040
but how do you come in on this Bruce I

1513
01:12:23,770 --> 01:12:21,590
mean do you think that the night vision

1514
01:12:26,500 --> 01:12:23,780
that the scopes can improve your chance

1515
01:12:28,600 --> 01:12:26,510
of seeing something strange and what are

1516
01:12:36,360 --> 01:12:28,610
these people actually seeing if it's not

1517
01:12:44,130 --> 01:12:40,240
there's image intensifiers but basically

1518
01:12:47,410 --> 01:12:44,140
use starlight star lights folks that

1519
01:12:50,229 --> 01:12:47,420
react to radiation is within the visible

1520
01:12:53,229 --> 01:12:50,239
more or less and then those infrared of

1521
01:12:56,320 --> 01:12:53,239
various types near-infrared when you've

1522
01:13:00,280 --> 01:12:56,330
got a sony camera that does a night

1523
01:13:02,200 --> 01:13:00,290
vision sony typical camera is operating

1524
01:13:04,780 --> 01:13:02,210
in this and it would call the

1525
01:13:06,970 --> 01:13:04,790
near-infrared a little a little bit

1526
01:13:09,760 --> 01:13:06,980
redder than your eyeballs can see and

1527
01:13:11,050 --> 01:13:09,770
then there are more expensive infrared

1528
01:13:13,440 --> 01:13:11,060
cameras that operate at longer

1529
01:13:16,090 --> 01:13:13,450
wavelengths of the infrared and what you

1530
01:13:18,550 --> 01:13:16,100
what you get is going to depend on what

1531
01:13:20,670 --> 01:13:18,560
you look look through if you're looking

1532
01:13:23,620 --> 01:13:20,680
at looking at the world through a

1533
01:13:25,270 --> 01:13:23,630
regular video camera for example you'll

1534
01:13:27,100 --> 01:13:25,280
see what you would see with their naked

1535
01:13:31,440 --> 01:13:27,110
eyes

1536
01:13:35,920 --> 01:13:31,450
here is a video camera set for the

1537
01:13:38,230 --> 01:13:35,930
consumer night vision is using in nearby

1538
01:13:41,040 --> 01:13:38,240
infrared and you can see things of the

1539
01:13:44,770 --> 01:13:41,050
camera that you can't see your eye

1540
01:13:46,360 --> 01:13:44,780
that's sort of so bizarre thing to see

1541
01:13:47,080 --> 01:13:46,370
happen right in your own house but

1542
01:13:51,940 --> 01:13:47,090
that's true

1543
01:13:54,130 --> 01:13:51,950
you can heat up a piece of metal on a

1544
01:13:55,480 --> 01:13:54,140
sole top for example heat up to the

1545
01:13:57,030 --> 01:13:55,490
point where it looks red to your eyeball

1546
01:14:00,640 --> 01:13:57,040
and you look at through one of these

1547
01:14:02,920 --> 01:14:00,650
night vision video cameras and it looks

1548
01:14:04,870 --> 01:14:02,930
bright and then it gets cold as it cools

1549
01:14:06,370 --> 01:14:04,880
down it gets deeper and deeper and red

1550
01:14:08,590 --> 01:14:06,380
then it gets the point where you can't

1551
01:14:11,170 --> 01:14:08,600
see it but you can still see it on a

1552
01:14:13,540 --> 01:14:11,180
camera the camera can pick up the lower

1553
01:14:16,390 --> 01:14:13,550
temperature the redder color color than

1554
01:14:17,890 --> 01:14:16,400
you can see so what you're going to pick

1555
01:14:20,770 --> 01:14:17,900
up out there is going to depend on what

1556
01:14:22,630 --> 01:14:20,780
you're looking through now I wouldn't be

1557
01:14:25,030 --> 01:14:22,640
surprised if you see see stuff that you

1558
01:14:26,830 --> 01:14:25,040
can't see the eye because a lot of these

1559
01:14:28,720 --> 01:14:26,840
cameras are more sensitive than me than

1560
01:14:35,940 --> 01:14:28,730
the human eye especially in certain

1561
01:14:40,420 --> 01:14:35,950
ranges of operation I have not studied

1562
01:14:44,350 --> 01:14:40,430
images which might be UFOs and cameras

1563
01:14:46,860 --> 01:14:44,360
like this so I really can't act like I

1564
01:14:52,060 --> 01:14:46,870
got an expert on what people might see

1565
01:14:55,960 --> 01:14:52,070
but you have to be careful the type of

1566
01:14:58,300 --> 01:14:55,970
camera which sends out a beam there's if

1567
01:15:01,600 --> 01:14:58,310
you're just using passive viewing you

1568
01:15:03,880 --> 01:15:01,610
get what the object is radiating if you

1569
01:15:06,490 --> 01:15:03,890
send a beam out then that beam can

1570
01:15:10,060 --> 01:15:06,500
bounce off with other things like bugs

1571
01:15:12,640 --> 01:15:10,070
nearby and create images that shouldn't

1572
01:15:15,340 --> 01:15:12,650
be there well it should be there because

1573
01:15:16,780 --> 01:15:15,350
the bugs are there you can't see them

1574
01:15:19,150 --> 01:15:16,790
with a naked eye because you can't see

1575
01:15:22,660 --> 01:15:19,160
the infrared beam in illuminating the

1576
01:15:25,060 --> 01:15:22,670
bugs so you have to be careful things

1577
01:15:27,610 --> 01:15:25,070
like that there are some videos

1578
01:15:30,700 --> 01:15:27,620
apparently of stuff that seems to be at

1579
01:15:33,640 --> 01:15:30,710
high altitude which wouldn't be bugs but

1580
01:15:35,830 --> 01:15:33,650
I don't really know I haven't I haven't

1581
01:15:39,430 --> 01:15:35,840
spent a lot of time I'm trying to

1582
01:15:40,930 --> 01:15:39,440
analyze the big vision videos paint by

1583
01:15:43,180 --> 01:15:40,940
the way my website

1584
01:15:49,979 --> 01:15:43,190
a whole bunch of case investigations on

1585
01:15:54,189 --> 01:15:49,989
it as the are UMUC dot my site my si T

1586
01:15:56,800 --> 01:15:54,199
dot-com broom AK mysite.com and there's

1587
01:15:58,170 --> 01:15:56,810
a whole bunch of kind of mega stuff to

1588
01:16:00,970 --> 01:15:58,180
keep you off the streets

1589
01:16:01,420 --> 01:16:00,980
hahaha well we like the streets here in

1590
01:16:03,280 --> 01:16:01,430
New York

1591
01:16:05,650 --> 01:16:03,290
hey so though Bruce whatever the cases

1592
01:16:07,120 --> 01:16:05,660
that you investigated which always

1593
01:16:10,140 --> 01:16:07,130
impressed me and we talked about it just

1594
01:16:14,979 --> 01:16:10,150
mentioned it really was the incident

1595
01:16:16,630 --> 01:16:14,989
over Christ Church what what year was

1596
01:16:20,070 --> 01:16:16,640
that that did that took place for the

1597
01:16:24,220 --> 01:16:20,080
camera mandated a rocket went up and

1598
01:16:26,260 --> 01:16:24,230
December 31st 1978 and I wrote some

1599
01:16:28,360 --> 01:16:26,270
articles about that that appeared in a

1600
01:16:30,970 --> 01:16:28,370
technical journal called applied optics

1601
01:16:34,360 --> 01:16:30,980
and that's still after these thirty

1602
01:16:36,910 --> 01:16:34,370
years is still the only case it's been

1603
01:16:39,459 --> 01:16:36,920
argued out in a reverie literature you

1604
01:16:41,830 --> 01:16:39,469
know we had a UFO conference and I think

1605
01:16:44,050 --> 01:16:41,840
it was Cielo Phoenix or San Diego years

1606
01:16:47,140 --> 01:16:44,060
ago and he showed up at the conference I

1607
01:16:48,820 --> 01:16:47,150
mean you know the of course he's well

1608
01:16:50,890 --> 01:16:48,830
known to people I guess in the UFO field

1609
01:16:54,550 --> 01:16:50,900
or a ufologist sort of followed the

1610
01:16:59,410 --> 01:16:54,560
subject for for many for many years but

1611
01:17:02,320 --> 01:16:59,420
what got out for dave croto oh yeah

1612
01:17:03,939 --> 01:17:02,330
Crockett yeah well now how did you how

1613
01:17:06,970 --> 01:17:03,949
did you first hear about that case that

1614
01:17:10,090 --> 01:17:06,980
it did again Iowa you know international

1615
01:17:11,920 --> 01:17:10,100
attention because again there you

1616
01:17:14,410 --> 01:17:11,930
weren't getting a you know a lot of

1617
01:17:17,640 --> 01:17:14,420
press from Australia about UFOs now how

1618
01:17:20,350 --> 01:17:17,650
did that first come our attention

1619
01:17:22,770 --> 01:17:20,360
synchronicities I guess first of all

1620
01:17:28,270 --> 01:17:22,780
could think it happened on December 31st

1621
01:17:33,520 --> 01:17:28,280
1978 and it was all done about between

1622
01:17:37,540 --> 01:17:33,530
midnight and 3:00 a.m. and involved the

1623
01:17:40,300 --> 01:17:37,550
pilot the copilot cameraman and Quentin

1624
01:17:43,570 --> 01:17:40,310
foolery reporter and reporters wife and

1625
01:17:46,090 --> 01:17:43,580
a another reporter all these people were

1626
01:17:47,590 --> 01:17:46,100
bit or visual witnesses and there were

1627
01:17:50,410 --> 01:17:47,600
two people at the Longton an air traffic

1628
01:17:53,350 --> 01:17:50,420
control center who are watching the air

1629
01:17:54,469 --> 01:17:53,360
tossing the radar there's a Tait audio

1630
01:17:56,660 --> 01:17:54,479
tape from the Vega

1631
01:17:58,640 --> 01:17:56,670
and audio tape from Quentin Fogerty in

1632
01:18:00,410 --> 01:17:58,650
the plane so you got one of the average

1633
01:18:01,870 --> 01:18:00,420
amount of information available here you

1634
01:18:07,250 --> 01:18:01,880
got sixteen millimeter color moving

1635
01:18:08,629 --> 01:18:07,260
images as well by David Crockett so when

1636
01:18:13,270 --> 01:18:08,639
this happened

1637
01:18:17,209 --> 01:18:13,280
probably the same morning through to

1638
01:18:20,330 --> 01:18:17,219
Melbourne Australia and commenced to put

1639
01:18:22,100 --> 01:18:20,340
together a half-hour documentary onea on

1640
01:18:24,169 --> 01:18:22,110
the sightings and that high hard

1641
01:18:27,560 --> 01:18:24,179
documentary was put together in the day

1642
01:18:29,569 --> 01:18:27,570
and sold to the rights to show it first

1643
01:18:32,359 --> 01:18:29,579
to a number of places throughout the

1644
01:18:34,850 --> 01:18:32,369
world including Walter Cronkite's the

1645
01:18:38,870 --> 01:18:34,860
evening news show on the first of

1646
01:18:45,500 --> 01:18:38,880
January and he showed that some of the

1647
01:18:47,919 --> 01:18:45,510
movie and had a Heineken class Heineken

1648
01:18:51,319 --> 01:18:47,929
insult class on his car

1649
01:18:55,069 --> 01:18:51,329
counterproductive points of your honor

1650
01:18:57,589 --> 01:18:55,079
and I saw the show it heard by

1651
01:18:58,879 --> 01:18:57,599
scuttlebutt that there were some UFO

1652
01:19:00,500 --> 01:18:58,889
stuff that had happened that it was

1653
01:19:03,469 --> 01:19:00,510
going to be on TV and sure enough there

1654
01:19:05,719 --> 01:19:03,479
was a Walter Cronkite trying to keep

1655
01:19:08,060 --> 01:19:05,729
these guys from the pieces other's

1656
01:19:10,189 --> 01:19:08,070
throats apart and the last thing that

1657
01:19:13,850 --> 01:19:10,199
what reconquer always said was and

1658
01:19:16,250 --> 01:19:13,860
that's the way it is there whatever day

1659
01:19:20,839 --> 01:19:16,260
it was this I said and that's the way it

1660
01:19:24,709 --> 01:19:20,849
is or is it on 1st of January 1979 well

1661
01:19:26,209 --> 01:19:24,719
it was Monday night and uh Isis watch it

1662
01:19:28,939 --> 01:19:26,219
on TV and I thought to myself well

1663
01:19:30,410 --> 01:19:28,949
somebody about 12,000 miles away may get

1664
01:19:33,140 --> 01:19:30,420
to look at this stuff and find something

1665
01:19:36,290 --> 01:19:33,150
interesting but it won't be me so I

1666
01:19:38,959 --> 01:19:36,300
really put out my mind went back to

1667
01:19:41,839 --> 01:19:38,969
normal where to work the next day you

1668
01:19:47,870 --> 01:19:41,849
know a couple days later I will have my

1669
01:19:50,239 --> 01:19:47,880
desk I got a phone call from law a cough

1670
01:19:52,370 --> 01:19:50,249
John Jack a cough who was the director

1671
01:19:54,830 --> 01:19:52,380
of NICAP at the time we talked about die

1672
01:19:57,529 --> 01:19:54,840
careful earlier National investigating

1673
01:19:59,149 --> 01:19:57,539
committee aerial phenomena that I have

1674
01:20:01,189 --> 01:19:59,159
been a member of since nineteen late

1675
01:20:03,199 --> 01:20:01,199
sixties I had done a lot of case

1676
01:20:05,089 --> 01:20:03,209
analyses for them so he called me up and

1677
01:20:06,410 --> 01:20:05,099
said he want to see they're bringing

1678
01:20:08,660 --> 01:20:06,420
this movie because

1679
01:20:10,669 --> 01:20:08,670
the Aryan States for analysis you want

1680
01:20:14,000 --> 01:20:10,679
to see it and I guess I thought for as

1681
01:20:16,760 --> 01:20:14,010
long as four microseconds yeah I'll look

1682
01:20:20,600 --> 01:20:16,770
at it and sheriff eight days after this

1683
01:20:23,900 --> 01:20:20,610
film was taken I had it in my house with

1684
01:20:26,180 --> 01:20:23,910
a 16 millimeter stop frame projector and

1685
01:20:28,540 --> 01:20:26,190
was analyzing a film that was the

1686
01:20:31,790 --> 01:20:28,550
beginning of they're not multi year long

1687
01:20:34,130 --> 01:20:31,800
study of what happened in New Zealand

1688
01:20:38,209 --> 01:20:34,140
and I've got most of that stuff written

1689
01:20:42,820 --> 01:20:38,219
up as on my website I interviewed by

1690
01:20:48,709 --> 01:20:42,830
phone the pilot the radar controller and

1691
01:20:51,470 --> 01:20:48,719
Counting and Crockett and then the TV

1692
01:20:54,470 --> 01:20:51,480
station had been accused of hoaxing this

1693
01:20:57,860 --> 01:20:54,480
whole thing for to get a increased

1694
01:21:02,000 --> 01:20:57,870
viewership or New Year's holiday and

1695
01:21:04,720 --> 01:21:02,010
they stung them that badly and they

1696
01:21:07,220 --> 01:21:04,730
vowed to have a independent

1697
01:21:08,810 --> 01:21:07,230
investigation occur and then they were

1698
01:21:10,850 --> 01:21:08,820
handed the problem of well we're gonna

1699
01:21:12,860 --> 01:21:10,860
have to investigate this and just so

1700
01:21:14,450 --> 01:21:12,870
happened that a guy who used to wear the

1701
01:21:16,189 --> 01:21:14,460
United States was a member of nightcap

1702
01:21:20,810 --> 01:21:16,199
that I knew personally Paul Norman

1703
01:21:23,540 --> 01:21:20,820
Norman had moved to Australia and was a

1704
01:21:25,250 --> 01:21:23,550
active in a UFO investigation there so

1705
01:21:27,320 --> 01:21:25,260
they called him up and he recommended

1706
01:21:31,520 --> 01:21:27,330
they take it to the United States and I

1707
01:21:35,689 --> 01:21:31,530
cap were spent me and I ended up going

1708
01:21:38,240 --> 01:21:35,699
to New Zealand and Australia for a total

1709
01:21:41,090 --> 01:21:38,250
of a a month a month long time I had to

1710
01:21:43,700 --> 01:21:41,100
take our work and collected on

1711
01:21:45,590 --> 01:21:43,710
tremendous amount a lot of data a couple

1712
01:21:49,030 --> 01:21:45,600
of tape recordings a sixty millimeter

1713
01:21:52,459 --> 01:21:49,040
car movie and the recorded memories of

1714
01:21:54,050 --> 01:21:52,469
all witnesses a lot of to considerable a

1715
01:21:57,290 --> 01:21:54,060
lot of stuff which I put together in a

1716
01:21:58,490 --> 01:21:57,300
history and then analyzing there are

1717
01:22:02,169 --> 01:21:58,500
some sightings here that can't be

1718
01:22:06,320 --> 01:22:02,179
explained and that's all without various

1719
01:22:12,020 --> 01:22:06,330
papers you might say on my website now

1720
01:22:14,300 --> 01:22:12,030
you you remember you remember the news

1721
01:22:18,500 --> 01:22:14,310
conference we had in New York City well

1722
01:22:19,810 --> 01:22:18,510
yeah I got up yeah but probably on Good

1723
01:22:25,040 --> 01:22:19,820
Morning America

1724
01:22:28,310 --> 01:22:25,050
that morning was Hynek and some lady

1725
01:22:31,700 --> 01:22:28,320
friend of his who arranged the first of

1726
01:22:34,520 --> 01:22:31,710
iana Good Morning America and then we

1727
01:22:39,310 --> 01:22:34,530
afternoon we went to this conference

1728
01:22:42,979 --> 01:22:39,320
this bus briefing and most the press was

1729
01:22:46,220 --> 01:22:42,989
in Maryland that the Camp David summit

1730
01:22:49,430 --> 01:22:46,230
agreement but we got some people there

1731
01:22:53,380 --> 01:22:49,440
one guy asked a question about wasn't

1732
01:22:56,479 --> 01:22:53,390
this uh possible airplanes that has been

1733
01:23:00,640 --> 01:22:56,489
recognized and I made some comment like

1734
01:23:05,780 --> 01:23:02,959
already told me afterwards he said well

1735
01:23:08,900 --> 01:23:05,790
what he heard me say that was a stupid

1736
01:23:11,330 --> 01:23:08,910
question he cringes the fray there halt

1737
01:23:13,820 --> 01:23:11,340
the whole audience of reporters would

1738
01:23:16,670 --> 01:23:13,830
leave because we fight or something I

1739
01:23:19,310 --> 01:23:16,680
can be cautious with it well there's

1740
01:23:24,770 --> 01:23:19,320
other universes they're used to it today

1741
01:23:29,180 --> 01:23:24,780
I think more the day yeah I was an early

1742
01:23:30,770 --> 01:23:29,190
version of truck well I think you can

1743
01:23:35,870 --> 01:23:30,780
compare Bruce we won't put you in that

1744
01:23:38,570 --> 01:23:35,880
category man yeah well Bruce say you

1745
01:23:42,110 --> 01:23:38,580
were also involved with analyzing a lot

1746
01:23:46,910 --> 01:23:42,120
of the photos taken by Ed waters in in

1747
01:23:53,979 --> 01:23:46,920
Florida I mean what what was your take

1748
01:23:57,170 --> 01:23:53,989
on on those pictures was ed Walters and

1749
01:23:58,370 --> 01:23:57,180
he had he had a series of pictures he

1750
01:24:01,520 --> 01:23:58,380
took pictures all the way up into about

1751
01:24:04,630 --> 01:24:01,530
1997 actually kind of sullen which had

1752
01:24:08,330 --> 01:24:04,640
never been published but he started off

1753
01:24:10,640 --> 01:24:08,340
in 19 November 1987 and over a period of

1754
01:24:14,479 --> 01:24:10,650
several years calling it a lot of

1755
01:24:16,220 --> 01:24:14,489
pictures but probably a most important

1756
01:24:18,290 --> 01:24:16,230
thing about that series of cases that

1757
01:24:21,440 --> 01:24:18,300
most people don't realize is all the

1758
01:24:24,140 --> 01:24:21,450
other sightings had occurred in my FBI

1759
01:24:25,640 --> 01:24:24,150
CIA UFO book I in the last section of

1760
01:24:32,030 --> 01:24:25,650
the book where I talk about my

1761
01:24:33,200 --> 01:24:32,040
experiences of the CIA I I was asked to

1762
01:24:36,410 --> 01:24:33,210
give a lecture on those

1763
01:24:39,380 --> 01:24:36,420
leggings and I because of that I put I

1764
01:24:42,229 --> 01:24:39,390
put in my book what I talked about it

1765
01:24:45,970 --> 01:24:42,239
and there were like six or eight

1766
01:24:50,330 --> 01:24:45,980
sightings occurred on that day before

1767
01:24:51,380 --> 01:24:50,340
Walters the people who who had these

1768
01:24:55,430 --> 01:24:51,390
sightings never would have said anything

1769
01:24:56,900 --> 01:24:55,440
is the pill situation for this kind of

1770
01:24:58,820 --> 01:24:56,910
battle had never told anybody about his

1771
01:25:01,100 --> 01:24:58,830
sighting a whole bunch of other settings

1772
01:25:06,620 --> 01:25:01,110
never would have been recorded so in

1773
01:25:08,479 --> 01:25:06,630
this case one author's 11 1987 hit

1774
01:25:09,680 --> 01:25:08,489
nobody else other witness would have

1775
01:25:12,620 --> 01:25:09,690
said anything and it had been for the

1776
01:25:14,450 --> 01:25:12,630
fact that he decided to have his

1777
01:25:16,640 --> 01:25:14,460
pictures published and when they saw

1778
01:25:20,620 --> 01:25:16,650
these pictures they call up the presser

1779
01:25:23,180 --> 01:25:20,630
letters and said we saw the same thing

1780
01:25:26,270 --> 01:25:23,190
it began on that one day and then

1781
01:25:28,390 --> 01:25:26,280
sightings occurred sporadically for the

1782
01:25:31,510 --> 01:25:28,400
next six months or eight months and

1783
01:25:34,520 --> 01:25:31,520
literally were hundreds of witnesses

1784
01:25:37,820 --> 01:25:34,530
became very controversial over the next

1785
01:25:41,510 --> 01:25:37,830
several years take a few hours just to

1786
01:25:43,640 --> 01:25:41,520
describe the history of the subject if I

1787
01:25:46,940 --> 01:25:43,650
get still remember back in the old days

1788
01:25:49,310 --> 01:25:46,950
10 20 years ago I could Reece a most of

1789
01:25:51,830 --> 01:25:49,320
the events that happen in all this

1790
01:25:54,560 --> 01:25:51,840
series and other people's but there were

1791
01:25:55,790 --> 01:25:54,570
as I said a number of other people he

1792
01:25:58,729 --> 01:25:55,800
said dozen other people saw they saw

1793
01:26:00,380 --> 01:25:58,739
they saw exactly the same things like

1794
01:26:03,260 --> 01:26:00,390
for example the County Coroner and his

1795
01:26:05,780 --> 01:26:03,270
wife say they saw the Saints are the

1796
01:26:08,740 --> 01:26:05,790
same object outside their house hovering

1797
01:26:13,190 --> 01:26:08,750
over a body of water known as a physical

1798
01:26:17,180 --> 01:26:13,200
sound and yeah they call it they call it

1799
01:26:19,610 --> 01:26:17,190
Bubba well I was later on the first

1800
01:26:24,860 --> 01:26:19,620
series of saying these things for 18

1801
01:26:27,470 --> 01:26:24,870
1987 and I July of 1988 then they were

1802
01:26:30,800 --> 01:26:27,480
the first concentration occurred then

1803
01:26:36,320 --> 01:26:30,810
the sliding rate dropped down until

1804
01:26:38,300 --> 01:26:36,330
about 1991 when I started to pick up and

1805
01:26:41,630 --> 01:26:38,310
they were Saudis red light objects

1806
01:26:43,940 --> 01:26:41,640
falling going through the sky very often

1807
01:26:46,729 --> 01:26:43,950
starting off as a red light and bursting

1808
01:26:50,360 --> 01:26:46,739
into a white flashing

1809
01:26:53,270 --> 01:26:50,370
like flash or multiple flashes and they

1810
01:26:55,310 --> 01:26:53,280
couldn't figure out what it was they had

1811
01:26:58,970 --> 01:26:55,320
170 some sightings over a period of

1812
01:27:01,310 --> 01:26:58,980
three years I think these are sayings

1813
01:27:02,479 --> 01:27:01,320
were buying people who got well

1814
01:27:06,290 --> 01:27:02,489
acquainted with the sky because they

1815
01:27:09,590 --> 01:27:06,300
went out almost every night to a whole

1816
01:27:11,479 --> 01:27:09,600
year a couple of years to see if there

1817
01:27:14,209 --> 01:27:11,489
was anything that was up here and yeah

1818
01:27:16,550 --> 01:27:14,219
sure enough they got a lot of a lot of

1819
01:27:19,100 --> 01:27:16,560
these events I myself have a sighting

1820
01:27:22,370 --> 01:27:19,110
when I went out of gull freeze starting

1821
01:27:26,209 --> 01:27:22,380
in the spring of the late summer of 1992

1822
01:27:27,920 --> 01:27:26,219
after there had been literally dozens of

1823
01:27:32,020 --> 01:27:27,930
sightings of this thing going through

1824
01:27:34,490 --> 01:27:32,030
the sky they said they saw had when a

1825
01:27:39,050 --> 01:27:34,500
red light came along and suddenly turned

1826
01:27:41,030 --> 01:27:39,060
into a ring of lights and what it's

1827
01:27:42,620 --> 01:27:41,040
really this this happened I decided I

1828
01:27:44,660 --> 01:27:42,630
didn't have to go down there see for

1829
01:27:46,970 --> 01:27:44,670
myself what was going on on September

1830
01:27:48,920 --> 01:27:46,980
16th so selfish things are right there

1831
01:27:51,229 --> 01:27:48,930
and nothing happened we were out to the

1832
01:27:54,140 --> 01:27:51,239
viewing area nothing was happening the

1833
01:27:56,420 --> 01:27:54,150
next night we went there and everybody

1834
01:27:59,720 --> 01:27:56,430
is wearing their standard binoculars as

1835
01:28:02,720 --> 01:27:59,730
a necklace and everybody had a video

1836
01:28:04,430 --> 01:28:02,730
camera or a lot of people did I have a

1837
01:28:08,900 --> 01:28:04,440
tape recorder and a big ear called

1838
01:28:12,320 --> 01:28:08,910
big a big ear distance microphones and

1839
01:28:15,650 --> 01:28:12,330
parabolic mic because I figured as these

1840
01:28:16,190 --> 01:28:15,660
things move in the sky out there it's a

1841
01:28:19,160 --> 01:28:16,200
hoax

1842
01:28:20,959 --> 01:28:19,170
they've got a little motor a model

1843
01:28:24,700 --> 01:28:20,969
airplane motor something driving it I

1844
01:28:30,860 --> 01:28:26,510
probably microphone that picks up

1845
01:28:32,750 --> 01:28:30,870
whispers at 100 feet so anyway everybody

1846
01:28:34,790 --> 01:28:32,760
was ready for an appearance knowing it

1847
01:28:37,580 --> 01:28:34,800
was going to happen or not I was having

1848
01:28:39,709 --> 01:28:37,590
some lady elves there is I equipped my

1849
01:28:41,930 --> 01:28:39,719
binoculars up I just happened to be

1850
01:28:44,420 --> 01:28:41,940
pointing in the right direction she

1851
01:28:46,370 --> 01:28:44,430
didn't say what left-right up-down North

1852
01:28:49,280 --> 01:28:46,380
East or what she just said there it is I

1853
01:28:51,050 --> 01:28:49,290
put looks ugly but I guys enough there

1854
01:28:52,910 --> 01:28:51,060
was a bright spot in the sky wishing

1855
01:28:55,670 --> 01:28:52,920
where there had been one and it was so

1856
01:28:59,940 --> 01:28:55,680
it against clouds there was a vaporous

1857
01:29:03,570 --> 01:28:59,950
cloud being lit by lights from a

1858
01:29:05,550 --> 01:29:03,580
school playing field provide a backdrop

1859
01:29:08,430 --> 01:29:05,560
the prevented you from seeing easily

1860
01:29:11,040 --> 01:29:08,440
through the cloud cover to the Stars up

1861
01:29:15,000 --> 01:29:11,050
above I could see this light weasely

1862
01:29:16,410 --> 01:29:15,010
with my binoculars and I put the

1863
01:29:19,670 --> 01:29:16,420
binoculars of it resolved in eight

1864
01:29:23,250 --> 01:29:19,680
points of light in a ring trough and

1865
01:29:26,190 --> 01:29:23,260
people have video of it and for still

1866
01:29:27,990 --> 01:29:26,200
photos and there are a couple of devices

1867
01:29:30,690 --> 01:29:28,000
used to measure get a crude

1868
01:29:33,090 --> 01:29:30,700
triangulation the bottom line I thought

1869
01:29:37,080 --> 01:29:33,100
was it shouldn't have been there

1870
01:29:41,040 --> 01:29:37,090
whatever it was and it may have been as

1871
01:29:44,010 --> 01:29:41,050
large as 10 or 15 feet in diameter based

1872
01:29:47,520 --> 01:29:44,020
on the fact I could see it to the cloud

1873
01:29:50,280 --> 01:29:47,530
cover well that was that was in my own

1874
01:29:54,980 --> 01:29:50,290
sighting there in Gulf Breeze now do you

1875
01:29:59,250 --> 01:29:54,990
think he could extraterrestrial craft I

1876
01:30:03,090 --> 01:29:59,260
don't know I couldn't see any main body

1877
01:30:05,160 --> 01:30:03,100
of the object just see the lights so I

1878
01:30:07,320 --> 01:30:05,170
think the reason I couldn't see the main

1879
01:30:09,600 --> 01:30:07,330
body was because it was so it was big

1880
01:30:11,730 --> 01:30:09,610
enough and far enough away to be up

1881
01:30:13,710 --> 01:30:11,740
above the cloud the glow in the clouds I

1882
01:30:15,150 --> 01:30:13,720
can see the lights because the light was

1883
01:30:18,330 --> 01:30:15,160
penetrating through the cloud coming

1884
01:30:22,710 --> 01:30:18,340
down on the camera but I couldn't see

1885
01:30:27,120 --> 01:30:22,720
the craft itself being walked by I said

1886
01:30:30,710 --> 01:30:27,130
well as a model it's a 4 foot for foot

1887
01:30:33,810 --> 01:30:30,720
sized model of a ring of lights somehow

1888
01:30:36,210 --> 01:30:33,820
fixed to turn on after us up at some

1889
01:30:38,640 --> 01:30:36,220
small how the food I should have been it

1890
01:30:41,340 --> 01:30:38,650
was definitely moving and I should have

1891
01:30:42,690 --> 01:30:41,350
been able to hear something oh yeah it

1892
01:30:45,510 --> 01:30:42,700
sounds like it was under intelligent

1893
01:30:47,430 --> 01:30:45,520
control we're running right up against

1894
01:30:49,460 --> 01:30:47,440
the midnight hour here and I do want to

1895
01:30:52,530 --> 01:30:49,470
go around the table one more time

1896
01:30:55,350 --> 01:30:52,540
shanell what's on your docket I mean

1897
01:30:59,010 --> 01:30:55,360
what are have you got any a plans as far

1898
01:31:00,270 --> 01:30:59,020
as your grandfather's a sighting that

1899
01:31:00,870 --> 01:31:00,280
goes I mean where do you take it from

1900
01:31:03,660 --> 01:31:00,880
here

1901
01:31:06,270 --> 01:31:03,670
um well I actually am majoring in

1902
01:31:09,660 --> 01:31:06,280
philosophy at a college here in Idaho

1903
01:31:12,780 --> 01:31:09,670
and and I'm just you know kind of doing

1904
01:31:13,770 --> 01:31:12,790
my own part of what I need for education

1905
01:31:17,460 --> 01:31:13,780
first

1906
01:31:19,290 --> 01:31:17,470
- probably conferences or helping my

1907
01:31:22,410 --> 01:31:19,300
mother with projects so you know I'm

1908
01:31:24,680 --> 01:31:22,420
getting educated well it's it's so

1909
01:31:27,480 --> 01:31:24,690
wonderful to have a

1910
01:31:31,080 --> 01:31:27,490
metru a year or so ago two years I guess

1911
01:31:32,670 --> 01:31:31,090
now and do say hello to star for me and

1912
01:31:34,920 --> 01:31:32,680
you did promise to take a photo when you

1913
01:31:38,550 --> 01:31:34,930
get the book and oh yeah we well yeah

1914
01:31:39,360 --> 01:31:38,560
all right and Bruce what's your next

1915
01:31:49,830 --> 01:31:39,370
project

1916
01:31:52,020 --> 01:31:49,840
book took me a long time while I'll ever

1917
01:31:54,840 --> 01:31:52,030
do get through this it really it really

1918
01:31:58,190 --> 01:31:54,850
began 20 years ago with some papers that

1919
01:32:01,140 --> 01:31:58,200
I wrote on the Kenneth Harold case

1920
01:32:03,600 --> 01:32:01,150
explaining explaining away the debunking

1921
01:32:06,750 --> 01:32:03,610
others my book is the only book this is

1922
01:32:08,580 --> 01:32:06,760
debunks of debunkers is 14o explanations

1923
01:32:11,100 --> 01:32:08,590
they've been offered for his citing and

1924
01:32:12,630 --> 01:32:11,110
I destroyed every one of them and cut by

1925
01:32:14,730 --> 01:32:12,640
the positive reason for why you would

1926
01:32:18,210 --> 01:32:14,740
believe is citing mainly these are

1927
01:32:21,660 --> 01:32:18,220
flashes of light the book contains a

1928
01:32:23,670 --> 01:32:21,670
technical analysis of it and the title

1929
01:32:27,050 --> 01:32:23,680
and the title league and the title again

1930
01:32:32,640 --> 01:32:27,060
is three minutes in June deciding that

1931
01:32:36,930 --> 01:32:32,650
the UFO sighting is in the world you can

1932
01:32:39,030 --> 01:32:36,940
get an Amazon or the public you can

1933
01:32:42,630 --> 01:32:39,040
really read reviews at the publisher

1934
01:32:45,140 --> 01:32:42,640
Richard Dolan press comm publishers

1935
01:32:47,960 --> 01:32:45,150
whatever it is very good very good and

1936
01:32:50,670 --> 01:32:47,970
well anyway we have we have reached the

1937
01:32:51,270 --> 01:32:50,680
stroke of midnight here on the East

1938
01:32:53,970 --> 01:32:51,280
Coast

1939
01:32:55,860 --> 01:32:53,980
and I want to remind people that the

1940
01:32:57,990 --> 01:32:55,870
book that we talked about earlier is the

1941
01:32:59,870 --> 01:32:58,000
matrix control system of philip k dick

1942
01:33:03,290 --> 01:32:59,880
which has the chapter in there about

1943
01:33:05,910 --> 01:33:03,300
kenneth Arnold's synchronicities and his

1944
01:33:08,040 --> 01:33:05,920
paranormal experiences that happened

1945
01:33:10,350 --> 01:33:08,050
later in life and I must say this has

1946
01:33:12,210 --> 01:33:10,360
been a wonderful program what a way to

1947
01:33:14,490 --> 01:33:12,220
celebrate and what a way to celebrate

1948
01:33:17,010 --> 01:33:14,500
with two of the most knowledgeable

1949
01:33:20,190 --> 01:33:17,020
persons on the Kenneth Arnold sighting

1950
01:33:22,050 --> 01:33:20,200
and the early days of UFOs and I want to

1951
01:33:24,370 --> 01:33:22,060
thank our guests for being on tonight

1952
01:33:28,390 --> 01:33:24,380
and Tim I

1953
01:33:30,210 --> 01:33:28,400
thank you for co-hosting and Tina you

1954
01:33:34,240 --> 01:33:30,220
know that has done a magnificent job

1955
01:33:36,700 --> 01:33:34,250
again as engineer and producer and

1956
01:33:45,430 --> 01:33:36,710
thanks to all our loyal listeners and

1957
01:33:51,770 --> 01:33:48,379
you've been listening to exploring the

1958
01:33:55,010 --> 01:33:51,780
bazaar with hosts Timothy Beckley and

1959
01:33:57,140 --> 01:33:55,020
King Swartz they're taking back the

1960
01:33:59,870 --> 01:33:57,150
night by jetting non-stop afore

1961
01:34:03,169 --> 01:33:59,880
proposals in search of a truly bizarre

1962
01:34:06,530 --> 01:34:03,179
and totally unexplained with you as

1963
01:34:11,089 --> 01:34:06,540
their combined Thursday nights at 7:00

1964
01:34:14,510 --> 01:34:11,099
p.m. Pacific 10:00 p.m. on the K cor

1965
01:34:18,080 --> 01:34:14,520
digital radio net for more information

1966
01:34:20,390 --> 01:34:18,090
on exploring the bazaar and host Timothy

1967
01:34:24,379 --> 01:34:20,400
Beckley and since walks check out their

1968
01:34:30,439 --> 01:34:24,389
K cor digital radio network follow their

1969
01:34:41,510 --> 01:34:30,449
YouTube channel @m r UFO 1,100 explode